Buying a GT2 RS: My Unfortunate Dealings with Porsche of the Main Line
10-06-2017, 01:02 PM
#166
Having sold a house in California, I can assure you, for the buyer and for a seller, that is not the case.
In California, a deposit on a house, although wrapped in a very legalistic looking piece of paper, only means: "I'm interested in buying" or "I may sell it to you." For a process that takes weeks and months, that doesn't change until about three days before the buyer hands over the cash.
Just say'in
In California, a deposit on a house, although wrapped in a very legalistic looking piece of paper, only means: "I'm interested in buying" or "I may sell it to you." For a process that takes weeks and months, that doesn't change until about three days before the buyer hands over the cash.
Just say'in
10-06-2017, 01:07 PM
#167
Sorry to hear about your plight OP, IMO the dealership is reprehensible, not for suggesting the additional $250K (I'll get back to that later) but for not disclosing upfront in the final months leading up to the GT2 RS' launch that they were intending to sticker the car over $500K!! That's just shady.
On the $250K ADM, I get the allure/greed to capture some of the financial upside on highly desirable GT cars however, Porsche dealerships (new car sales) are in the "new issue" market not the secondary market for cars. At "new issue", while a modest market adjustment can be expected ($10-50K), $250K is ridiculous. Dealerships need to understand that MSRP-paying buyers vastly outnumber ADM-paying buyers...it wouldn't be good long-term business to alienate and lose hundreds of MSRP-paying customers in the pursuit of ADM-paying whales... not to mention the blemish to their reputation.
On the $250K ADM, I get the allure/greed to capture some of the financial upside on highly desirable GT cars however, Porsche dealerships (new car sales) are in the "new issue" market not the secondary market for cars. At "new issue", while a modest market adjustment can be expected ($10-50K), $250K is ridiculous. Dealerships need to understand that MSRP-paying buyers vastly outnumber ADM-paying buyers...it wouldn't be good long-term business to alienate and lose hundreds of MSRP-paying customers in the pursuit of ADM-paying whales... not to mention the blemish to their reputation.
Last edited by Akunob; 10-06-2017 at 01:25 PM.
10-06-2017, 01:11 PM
#168
Drifting
Having sold a house in California, I can assure you, for the buyer and for a seller, that is not the case.
In California, a deposit on a house, although wrapped in a very legalistic looking piece of paper, only means: "I'm interested in buying" or "I may sell it to you." For a process that takes weeks and months, that doesn't change until about three days before the buyer hands over the cash.
Just say'in
In California, a deposit on a house, although wrapped in a very legalistic looking piece of paper, only means: "I'm interested in buying" or "I may sell it to you." For a process that takes weeks and months, that doesn't change until about three days before the buyer hands over the cash.
Just say'in
What you are stating is - but for and there are is no applicable but for when ordering a car with a deposit. If you are applying a 3 day cool off period for consumers that time has lapsed.
What you are missing is the element of which there are associated costs to charge more - the buyer placed a deposit the dealer had no need or trigger or applicable trigger to raise the cost of the car.
There is no sympathy or economic hardship the dealer incurred - there is with the buyer sellers can not have it both ways.
10-06-2017, 02:10 PM
#169
What you're not accounting for is that a real estate deal does not involve just a buyer and a seller. As you probably know, the big guy in a real estate deal is the buyers lender.
A buyer can waive all the contingencies he wants, waive all the inspections he wants, waive anything else he wants; but, until the lender says "here's the money," the seller doesn't have to sell anything. And up until that point, neither the buyer nor seller has a legal leg up.
Had the OP employed just a fraction of the thinking involved in real estate deals, he'd have his car.
That applies to me, too, since I've been down the same road he's gone down.
10-06-2017, 02:17 PM
#170
Rennlist Member
I guess for you and some others.
I wanted the car (GT4) and got it 8/2015 at MSRP. i want the car GT3.2 and secured a MSRP allocation for the exact spec i wanted for a early 2018 car.
and i am a nobody in the p car world... GT4 was the first new Porsche i have ever bought.
So there will be the ones that still pay over and then there will be people that pay what the car is worth... different strokes, what makes the world go round.
I wanted the car (GT4) and got it 8/2015 at MSRP. i want the car GT3.2 and secured a MSRP allocation for the exact spec i wanted for a early 2018 car.
and i am a nobody in the p car world... GT4 was the first new Porsche i have ever bought.
So there will be the ones that still pay over and then there will be people that pay what the car is worth... different strokes, what makes the world go round.
10-06-2017, 02:36 PM
#171
You left someone off your list.
What you're not accounting for is that a real estate deal does not involve just a buyer and a seller. As you probably know, the big guy in a real estate deal is the buyers lender.
A buyer can waive all the contingencies he wants, waive all the inspections he wants, waive anything else he wants; but, until the lender says "here's the money," the seller doesn't have to sell anything. And up until that point, neither the buyer nor seller has a legal leg up.
Had the OP employed just a fraction of the thinking involved in real estate deals, he'd have his car.
That applies to me, too, since I've been down the same road he's gone down.
What you're not accounting for is that a real estate deal does not involve just a buyer and a seller. As you probably know, the big guy in a real estate deal is the buyers lender.
A buyer can waive all the contingencies he wants, waive all the inspections he wants, waive anything else he wants; but, until the lender says "here's the money," the seller doesn't have to sell anything. And up until that point, neither the buyer nor seller has a legal leg up.
Had the OP employed just a fraction of the thinking involved in real estate deals, he'd have his car.
That applies to me, too, since I've been down the same road he's gone down.
10-06-2017, 04:00 PM
#173
Drifting
Meaning both are held accountable - which is the entire reason an exchange of "cash or something of worth" is exchanged if something goes wrong due to the buyer the seller simply keeps the deposit.
Which is why a buyer can force a seller to sell and a seller can not force a buyer to buy.
10-06-2017, 04:32 PM
#174
I didn't read through every post on this thread (after page 6 it got a little repetitive). However, this morning on my train commute I watched a YouTube video on Shmee's channel that he had ordered a GT3, but the whole video was about his time at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. When you see in the video the range of extraordinary supercars that are available from the many manufacturers in the world today, it seems there are numerous choices and many of them are probably in the price zipcode of the GT2RS. So, if you must have a GT2RS, then you may be subjecting yourself to the game you must play to get one. But with all this agitation, pick one of the other choices and just go and enjoy it.
10-06-2017, 04:51 PM
#176
Three Wheelin'
A deposit on a house for sale is 100% binding - you received something of value.
A seller can not make a buyer buy a buyer 100% can make a seller sell. The deposit reflected a contract something of value was transacted. As long as you discussed a sale price and accepted deposit it is a contract. If it turns into a he said she said he who placed the deposit will win in this case there is MSRP which is only what the dealer is entitled to as the dealer took no risk vs if the dealer specified took delivery and placed it in inventory etc.
If you sold your house for 250k after entering a contract in good faith with me - you would be in a ton of hot water
As you state your house was for sale the only way to sell something and take a deposit there would have been a published or discussed price. Best case for you even if there is no price which would be highly unlikely the buyer could order an appraisal and hold you accountable to sell at that price - fair market but again that's highly unlikely as you took a deposit based on some agreed or published value.
Sellers are allowed to market after taking a deposit - allowing for a back up contract the only trigger to enact that contract is the original buyer fails to perform. In this case buyer was 100% capable of performing so the dealer is acting in bad faith ethics and the buyer relied on the dealer to his detriment - detrimental reliance which is subject to punitive as is the dealer buying the Ferrari below market it would appear that there are real damages -again I would not suggest pursuing the dealer but I am not in his shoes nor your neighbor
A seller can not make a buyer buy a buyer 100% can make a seller sell. The deposit reflected a contract something of value was transacted. As long as you discussed a sale price and accepted deposit it is a contract. If it turns into a he said she said he who placed the deposit will win in this case there is MSRP which is only what the dealer is entitled to as the dealer took no risk vs if the dealer specified took delivery and placed it in inventory etc.
If you sold your house for 250k after entering a contract in good faith with me - you would be in a ton of hot water
As you state your house was for sale the only way to sell something and take a deposit there would have been a published or discussed price. Best case for you even if there is no price which would be highly unlikely the buyer could order an appraisal and hold you accountable to sell at that price - fair market but again that's highly unlikely as you took a deposit based on some agreed or published value.Sellers are allowed to market after taking a deposit - allowing for a back up contract the only trigger to enact that contract is the original buyer fails to perform. In this case buyer was 100% capable of performing so the dealer is acting in bad faith ethics and the buyer relied on the dealer to his detriment - detrimental reliance which is subject to punitive as is the dealer buying the Ferrari below market it would appear that there are real damages -again I would not suggest pursuing the dealer but I am not in his shoes nor your neighbor
1) I have not seen a price ever stated on a contract and unfortunately if just spoken about it won't hold up in court without many things to go along with the verbal air exchanged....he said, she said will follow written facts when in doubt.
2) We need to see the Pre-trade details on paperwork signed to allow dealership to sell the Ferrari before the GT2 RS final buyers contract was executed (Vin needed and price breakdown required). I assure you language exists on it for just a situation in which a deposit car never materializes ("subject to availability") from Porsche, if the dealership sold Ferrari and afterwards the OP wanted to back out of getting the deposit vehicle, or terms just don't come together when a car materializes. In other words dealer cant just get keys to the Ferrari and sell it without other docs being signed by OP so that it can be completed legally.
3) You can't "make a seller sell" if the seller didn't sell anything or agree to? They agreed to take a deposit for a potential allocated car with almost no other info or vague info at best to secure a deposit.
4) Other than making an honored individual serving in our armed forces that protects our great nation feel screwed which was easily avoidable by the dealer just stating 2+ years ago.....we won't discuss a potential price until we examine market value but we will leave you first on list with a right to turn down when final asking price is determined, or we won't consider selling at MSRP so keep your deposit money and your trade in because it would be wasting your time, or WE WILL SELL AND COMMIT ON CONTRACT THAT WE WILL HONOR THE MSRP AS THE SALE PRICE PLUS PURCHASE FEES WHATEVER IT MAY BE AS LISTED ON MONRONEY STICKER FROM PCNA...I just don't see how this experience mirrors a home purchase or sale at all from a contract standpoint?
10-06-2017, 06:11 PM
#178
10-06-2017, 06:29 PM
#179
Three Wheelin'
I hope they make it right for you.
