Is the 991 the last pure GT car?
12-28-2018, 11:02 AM
#47
Nope, the 997 GT cars were. Once Porsche introduced electric steering (vs. hydraulic), rear wheel steering (RWS) and...wait for it...yes, PDK then ”pure GT” became an oxymoron in the 991. I love the newer GT cars and I will continue to buy them but I have no illusions as to their ‘purity’. I buy them for what they are, incredible sports cars that get me around a track faster (and easier with less effort) with every new iteration, and can take a beating with relatively lower running cost than the competition (I.e., value). If I want purity, I’d better start looking for a Tardis.
12-28-2018, 11:08 AM
#48
I've had my fair share of GT cars. I currently own a 991.2 GT3RS, and I have a 2019 GT2RS incoming in February. From what I can tell, the new 992 chassis is quite larger and is setup for the incoming hybrid drivetrain. So, I feel that the 991 is the last pure GT chassis.
With that said, I'm very hesitant to trade my 3RS for the 2RS. I'm thinking about keeping them both for a little while. The selling the 2RS for a 991.2 GT3 manual (possibly a Touring model).
The bottom line is that I feel the road is about to end, gentlemen. We will praise the 991 GT cars like the air cooled guys praised their machines. However, I feel that our praise is more warrantied - turbos and hybrid power are for the birds, literally - the planet needs CO2 to survive.
Buy up all the 991 GT cars you can afford!
With that said, I'm very hesitant to trade my 3RS for the 2RS. I'm thinking about keeping them both for a little while. The selling the 2RS for a 991.2 GT3 manual (possibly a Touring model).
The bottom line is that I feel the road is about to end, gentlemen. We will praise the 991 GT cars like the air cooled guys praised their machines. However, I feel that our praise is more warrantied - turbos and hybrid power are for the birds, literally - the planet needs CO2 to survive.
Buy up all the 991 GT cars you can afford!
The 991GTs have nothing pure about them, it's actually from a Porsche driver point of view a monstruosity
!It's the 1st one that does almost everything better than the human at the wheel. Really if you embrace the tech, there is just steering left (for how long... they will take that away from us to you'll see).
With the exception of ABS may be, all the previous generations improvements were like improvement of tools for the driver to do his track thing. Just better tools. The man at the wheel was still making all the decisions.
The 991GT is a fantastic car, fast as hell but it dumbs you down as a driver.
Most won't care, will not even think about it, will just focus on performance and winning the DE (I definitly tend to think like that !) but it's a fascinating developement !
12-28-2018, 11:20 AM
#49
Drifting
The 991GTs have nothing pure about them, it's actually from a Porsche driver point of view a monstruosity !
It's the 1st one that does almost everything better than the human at the wheel. Really if you embrace the tech, there is just steering left (for how long... they will take that away from us to you'll see).
With the exception of ABS may be, all the previous generations improvements were like improvement of tools for the driver to do his track thing. Just better tools. The man at the wheel was still making all the decisions.
The 991GT is a fantastic car, fast as hell but it dumbs you down as a driver.
Most won't care, will not even think about it, will just focus on performance and winning the DE (I definitly tend to think like that !) but it's a fascinating developement !
!It's the 1st one that does almost everything better than the human at the wheel. Really if you embrace the tech, there is just steering left (for how long... they will take that away from us to you'll see).
With the exception of ABS may be, all the previous generations improvements were like improvement of tools for the driver to do his track thing. Just better tools. The man at the wheel was still making all the decisions.
The 991GT is a fantastic car, fast as hell but it dumbs you down as a driver.
Most won't care, will not even think about it, will just focus on performance and winning the DE (I definitly tend to think like that !) but it's a fascinating developement !
12-28-2018, 11:21 AM
#50
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12-28-2018, 11:23 AM
#51
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Making the redline 9,500 rpm would allow 6% lower gearing (which is a significant change), assuming same ~200mph top speed with peak power happening around 8,750 rpm (instead of current 8,250 rpm).
12-28-2018, 11:27 AM
#52
12-28-2018, 11:33 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by fxz
looks to be wrong
...and Porsche says that total weight of the 991.1 Carrera S with PDK (versus a comparably equipped 997) is about 88 lb. lighter, at 3120 lb.
...and Porsche says that total weight of the 991.1 Carrera S with PDK (versus a comparably equipped 997) is about 88 lb. lighter, at 3120 lb.
Ok, Ok, i kid.
12-28-2018, 12:10 PM
#55
All the nannies are optional. Turn them off you think you're such a hot **** driver. Don't like traction control in your $200,000 car? Turn it off. These cars are meant for the track. A car company would be nuts to build a NEW car that performs WORSE than the previous model.
.Porsche felt rightly they needed to do this. Look at how much discussion the Nissan NBRing lap time generated.
They would have been left behind in the arms race and in the end not that many are buying the manual 991GT3.
Not ALL nannies are optional but turn everything you can turn off.... and leave part of the performance on the table...
It has nothing to do about being a hot **** driver either. Hot**** or beginner it's the same, the car is > to you/most of us humans !
I am not saying it's good or bad, and there is not much to do about it anyways, I am just saying that the 991GTs are a HUGE leap in the Porsche world and likely will be remembered as such.
As some suggest here, the 997 could be the last of the "drivers" 911. And the 991 the 1st "digital" 911.
12-28-2018, 12:36 PM
#57
Drifting
I do not think just 25 HP( RS output) will do the trick. And 9500 red line would not get me that excited. 9000 is already a stretch because the gears are just a tad long so 9500 I think would be just too much.
They will certainly have some tricks up their sleeve.
I am done with the Porsche rat race so I am glad i can sit and enjoy it from the Gallery
.
They will certainly have some tricks up their sleeve.
I am done with the Porsche rat race so I am glad i can sit and enjoy it from the Gallery
.You realize it's making the redline ever higher than allows lower gearing, right? It's the only way (other than adding more ratios or making the cars slower in top speed).
Making the redline 9,500 rpm would allow 6% lower gearing (which is a significant change), assuming same ~200mph top speed with peak power happening around 8,750 rpm (instead of current 8,250 rpm).
Making the redline 9,500 rpm would allow 6% lower gearing (which is a significant change), assuming same ~200mph top speed with peak power happening around 8,750 rpm (instead of current 8,250 rpm).
The RSR has a published redline of 9500, at least in endurance trim.
Not getting 9500 RPM with a warranty; the corrected mean piston speed would probably be VERY high. Perhaps higher than the Valkyrie... I’ll leave it to Grant or PeteVB to calculate it.
12-28-2018, 12:56 PM
#58
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The stresses on the motor are proportional to the moving mass, but also proportional to the Square of the speed of those masses. So having large and heavy moving pieces causes stress, but making those pieces move a little bit faster causes much more stress.
Even with the above understood, I think the number of GT3/RS owners who would run the cars hard enough for enough hours during the warranty period (only 2 years in most markets) to cause stress-related engine failures would be relatively small with a 9,500 rpm redline (11.4% more stress at redline, unless they can shave some more mass). This assumes that there are no longer design flaws that are only exposed by the fast engine speeds...
Last edited by GrantG; 12-28-2018 at 01:38 PM.
12-28-2018, 04:07 PM
#59
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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992 4S Vs 991.2 4S
difference is 65Kg not 55
992 2S Curb weight PDK 3,382 lb
991.2 2S Curb weight PDK 3,219 lb
difference is 163 lb that is 74 Kg
new 992.1 2S 3,382 lb Vs
991.1 2S 3120lb
difference is 262 lb that is 119Kg !
worth to note that 991.1 2S PDK is 88 lb that is 40 Kg lighter than previous 997.2 2S PDK
..And Porsche says that total weight of the 991.1 Carrera S with PDK (versus a comparably equipped 997) is about 88 lb. lighter, at 3120 lb.
so jumping from a 991.1 Carrers S to a 992 Carrera S you will get 262 lb 119 Kg weight which is not a small difference
difference is 65Kg not 55
992 2S Curb weight PDK 3,382 lb
991.2 2S Curb weight PDK 3,219 lb
difference is 163 lb that is 74 Kg
new 992.1 2S 3,382 lb Vs
991.1 2S 3120lb
difference is 262 lb that is 119Kg !
worth to note that 991.1 2S PDK is 88 lb that is 40 Kg lighter than previous 997.2 2S PDK
..And Porsche says that total weight of the 991.1 Carrera S with PDK (versus a comparably equipped 997) is about 88 lb. lighter, at 3120 lb.
so jumping from a 991.1 Carrers S to a 992 Carrera S you will get 262 lb 119 Kg weight which is not a small difference
AGREE- 262 lbs is a lot But - it will be interesting if they will use more light weight material/parts on the 992 GT3 to minimize such a weight gain??. The problem is that Porsche thinks you can negate weight gain with more power( which I get) but you can only dress a pig so many ways
assuming from spy video that the GT3 engine remain the same, shaving the extra
992 65Kg weight ( due the chassis, new pdk, particle filter) won t be so easy,
they should go for a specific lighter pdk or keeping the old 7gears to save 20Kg (who needs a 800Nm gearbox on naturally aspirated engine??)
assuming a lighter pdk it would still remain 45Kg, to shave them they could go with carbon wheels and carbon hood/roof/lid/oil tank with a nice Ti exhaust
250k?
most likely an heavier GT3
Last edited by fxz; 12-28-2018 at 05:33 PM.
12-28-2018, 04:47 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
356/1
356/2
356
356A
356B
356C
901
911 LWB
911 CIS
911 w/impact bumpers
930
964
993
996
997
991
^ Pick the last pure from the above. The arguments can be (and were) made...
Indeed.
And…that's a superb list.
(Mine wouldn't differ much...)
356/2
356
356A
356B
356C
901
911 LWB
911 CIS
911 w/impact bumpers
930
964
993
996
997
991
^ Pick the last pure from the above. The arguments can be (and were) made...
And…that's a superb list.
(Mine wouldn't differ much...)