Will this make anyone think twice about putting a deposit on a new GT car?
08-26-2019, 01:00 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Cant take the punishment? Value?
Some of you are delusional. Thats the word.
How many of the gen 1 gt3 cars have gone through at least 1 engine? There are cars on their 4th engine here.
There are gen2 cars popping up with engine failures (different reasons, but still).
The mighty mezger engine. Right. Lets see... you have to do the coolant lines ($3000-4000). You have to rebuild the diff because the rear steps out under heavy breaking ($3000-5000). The clutch doesnt last more than 20k miles, even less if its an RS. Brake pads need changing every 10k miles.
You want to hear my experience driving, ahem daily driving, my shelby gt350. 49,000 miles as of today. Multiple, numerous 8250 rpm shifts. Do you know what I had to change in that car besides oil in almost 50,000 miles? Hmmm cabin air filter ($20). Fuel filter ($29). And thats about it.... Do you know how many times it went to a dealer in its entire life time? Total? 2 (TWO). Yes not a typo. And both times it was my fault but Ford covered it. Try that in your “GT” car and let me know how it works. Most of you wont drive these cars more than 50 miles a month so, I guess you’ll never let me know.
Have you actually owned these GT cars past 10k miles? Do you know the annual service required for these cars - simply daily driving it, going WOT occasionally? Minimum 2-3 oil changes, spark plugs and sometimes coils, transmission fluid. Thats $5,000 worth of annual service per year. And thats if you make it there without engine blowing up or cats failing or exhaust valves going bad.
come on... give me a break.
The pushrod 6.2 liter can go and go and go and go for tens of thousands of miles. They are bullet proof. You change your oil once every 6000-7000 miles (and thats 9 quart of cheap $10 oil) and you are done. No service necessary elsewhere for 6-7 maybe 8 years assuming car sees 6000-7000 miles/year.
Have you heard a ZR1 at WOT on 1-2-3 gears? I strongly recommend you do. I have driven all of these cars. ZR1 is GT2RS levels performance but without the problems of turbo (lag, lack of noise, muted character).
Quality? The fact that you quote interior quality so many times to me show you and I have completely different expectations from a car. Because the way i drive my car, there is simply no TIME to even briefly look at the inside. There is no WAY to even hear the interior rattles. Some of you are clearly here because you cant afford a F car, so you want poor man’s Ferrari driving a 911 GT car. But I doubt you will drive your car like you stole it in real life.
Some of you are delusional. Thats the word.
How many of the gen 1 gt3 cars have gone through at least 1 engine? There are cars on their 4th engine here.
There are gen2 cars popping up with engine failures (different reasons, but still).
The mighty mezger engine. Right. Lets see... you have to do the coolant lines ($3000-4000). You have to rebuild the diff because the rear steps out under heavy breaking ($3000-5000). The clutch doesnt last more than 20k miles, even less if its an RS. Brake pads need changing every 10k miles.
You want to hear my experience driving, ahem daily driving, my shelby gt350. 49,000 miles as of today. Multiple, numerous 8250 rpm shifts. Do you know what I had to change in that car besides oil in almost 50,000 miles? Hmmm cabin air filter ($20). Fuel filter ($29). And thats about it.... Do you know how many times it went to a dealer in its entire life time? Total? 2 (TWO). Yes not a typo. And both times it was my fault but Ford covered it. Try that in your “GT” car and let me know how it works. Most of you wont drive these cars more than 50 miles a month so, I guess you’ll never let me know.
Have you actually owned these GT cars past 10k miles? Do you know the annual service required for these cars - simply daily driving it, going WOT occasionally? Minimum 2-3 oil changes, spark plugs and sometimes coils, transmission fluid. Thats $5,000 worth of annual service per year. And thats if you make it there without engine blowing up or cats failing or exhaust valves going bad.
come on... give me a break.
The pushrod 6.2 liter can go and go and go and go for tens of thousands of miles. They are bullet proof. You change your oil once every 6000-7000 miles (and thats 9 quart of cheap $10 oil) and you are done. No service necessary elsewhere for 6-7 maybe 8 years assuming car sees 6000-7000 miles/year.
Have you heard a ZR1 at WOT on 1-2-3 gears? I strongly recommend you do. I have driven all of these cars. ZR1 is GT2RS levels performance but without the problems of turbo (lag, lack of noise, muted character).
Quality? The fact that you quote interior quality so many times to me show you and I have completely different expectations from a car. Because the way i drive my car, there is simply no TIME to even briefly look at the inside. There is no WAY to even hear the interior rattles. Some of you are clearly here because you cant afford a F car, so you want poor man’s Ferrari driving a 911 GT car. But I doubt you will drive your car like you stole it in real life.
The following users liked this post:
two2012spyders (08-28-2019)
08-26-2019, 01:35 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
I’m interested the in the Z06/ZR1 versions and I’m even holding off buying the next GT Porsche until these hit the market. My GT3T is fine for the next couple of years.
08-26-2019, 02:25 PM
#48
For 800 hp/725 torque in crank, it has incredible cooling. I personally cannot overheat the thing even when I on purposely tried.
I am aware of the shortcomings of the Z06 model. But that car is mere 80k. There are GT3RS versions out there where just the options list is as expensive as 80k Z06.
Do you understand that 80k comes with brembo CCB brakes that are far superior than PCCB?
The wing/splitter/hood in the 120k ZR1 are all CF (among other things like side skirts) are included free of charge whereas in WP cars you dont even get a proper front splitter not to mention you have to pay extra for these? ZR1 for 120k generates far more downforce than any GT variant - almost 1000 lbs and does 215 mph top speed?
I strongly suggest you guys go for a spin in a ZR1, it will change your perspective.
And here is the best part. It comes in manual. The best choice you have with porsche is the base GT3. ZR1 is the most powerful mass production manual transmission sports car. You have to experience what it feels like to go WOT on a 800 hp RWD manual car.
I drove the new and old GT3RS, even with straight pipes. I drove all 997 GT cars. So I am not talking out of my ***.
And here is why ZR1 is relevant, the new C8 Z06 will beat this ZR1. It will probably have 800-850 hp, will have incredible track and straight line performance under 6 figures. Porsche will not be able to come close to it, even with the unobtainable cheater R compound tires.
oh and what the hell was that lapping tracks with tires that no one can order, which gives 3-4 seconds of advantage in small tracks? You all know with standard Cup2 tires none of the GT cars would make those times.
08-26-2019, 03:16 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
My experience is with C7 ZR1.
For 800 hp/725 torque in crank, it has incredible cooling. I personally cannot overheat the thing even when I on purposely tried.
I am aware of the shortcomings of the Z06 model. But that car is mere 80k. There are GT3RS versions out there where just the options list is as expensive as 80k Z06.
Do you understand that 80k comes with brembo CCB brakes that are far superior than PCCB?
The wing/splitter/hood in the 120k ZR1 are all CF (among other things like side skirts) are included free of charge whereas in WP cars you dont even get a proper front splitter not to mention you have to pay extra for these? ZR1 for 120k generates far more downforce than any GT variant - almost 1000 lbs and does 215 mph top speed?
I strongly suggest you guys go for a spin in a ZR1, it will change your perspective.
And here is the best part. It comes in manual. The best choice you have with porsche is the base GT3. ZR1 is the most powerful mass production manual transmission sports car. You have to experience what it feels like to go WOT on a 800 hp RWD manual car.
I drove the new and old GT3RS, even with straight pipes. I drove all 997 GT cars. So I am not talking out of my ***.
And here is why ZR1 is relevant, the new C8 Z06 will beat this ZR1. It will probably have 800-850 hp, will have incredible track and straight line performance under 6 figures. Porsche will not be able to come close to it, even with the unobtainable cheater R compound tires.
oh and what the hell was that lapping tracks with tires that no one can order, which gives 3-4 seconds of advantage in small tracks? You all know with standard Cup2 tires none of the GT cars would make those times.
For 800 hp/725 torque in crank, it has incredible cooling. I personally cannot overheat the thing even when I on purposely tried.
I am aware of the shortcomings of the Z06 model. But that car is mere 80k. There are GT3RS versions out there where just the options list is as expensive as 80k Z06.
Do you understand that 80k comes with brembo CCB brakes that are far superior than PCCB?
The wing/splitter/hood in the 120k ZR1 are all CF (among other things like side skirts) are included free of charge whereas in WP cars you dont even get a proper front splitter not to mention you have to pay extra for these? ZR1 for 120k generates far more downforce than any GT variant - almost 1000 lbs and does 215 mph top speed?
I strongly suggest you guys go for a spin in a ZR1, it will change your perspective.
And here is the best part. It comes in manual. The best choice you have with porsche is the base GT3. ZR1 is the most powerful mass production manual transmission sports car. You have to experience what it feels like to go WOT on a 800 hp RWD manual car.
I drove the new and old GT3RS, even with straight pipes. I drove all 997 GT cars. So I am not talking out of my ***.
And here is why ZR1 is relevant, the new C8 Z06 will beat this ZR1. It will probably have 800-850 hp, will have incredible track and straight line performance under 6 figures. Porsche will not be able to come close to it, even with the unobtainable cheater R compound tires.
oh and what the hell was that lapping tracks with tires that no one can order, which gives 3-4 seconds of advantage in small tracks? You all know with standard Cup2 tires none of the GT cars would make those times.
08-26-2019, 03:16 PM
#50
Nordschleife Master
Cant take the punishment? Value?
Some of you are delusional. Thats the word.
How many of the gen 1 gt3 cars have gone through at least 1 engine? There are cars on their 4th engine here.
There are gen2 cars popping up with engine failures (different reasons, but still).
The mighty mezger engine. Right. Lets see... you have to do the coolant lines ($3000-4000). You have to rebuild the diff because the rear steps out under heavy breaking ($3000-5000). The clutch doesnt last more than 20k miles, even less if its an RS. Brake pads need changing every 10k miles.
You want to hear my experience driving, ahem daily driving, my shelby gt350. 49,000 miles as of today. Multiple, numerous 8250 rpm shifts. Do you know what I had to change in that car besides oil in almost 50,000 miles? Hmmm cabin air filter ($20). Fuel filter ($29). And thats about it.... Do you know how many times it went to a dealer in its entire life time? Total? 2 (TWO). Yes not a typo. And both times it was my fault but Ford covered it. Try that in your “GT” car and let me know how it works. Most of you wont drive these cars more than 50 miles a month so, I guess you’ll never let me know.
Have you actually owned these GT cars past 10k miles? Do you know the annual service required for these cars - simply daily driving it, going WOT occasionally? Minimum 2-3 oil changes, spark plugs and sometimes coils, transmission fluid. Thats $5,000 worth of annual service per year. And thats if you make it there without engine blowing up or cats failing or exhaust valves going bad.
come on... give me a break.
The pushrod 6.2 liter can go and go and go and go for tens of thousands of miles. They are bullet proof. You change your oil once every 6000-7000 miles (and thats 9 quart of cheap $10 oil) and you are done. No service necessary elsewhere for 6-7 maybe 8 years assuming car sees 6000-7000 miles/year.
Have you heard a ZR1 at WOT on 1-2-3 gears? I strongly recommend you do. I have driven all of these cars. ZR1 is GT2RS levels performance but without the problems of turbo (lag, lack of noise, muted character).
Quality? The fact that you quote interior quality so many times to me show you and I have completely different expectations from a car. Because the way i drive my car, there is simply no TIME to even briefly look at the inside. There is no WAY to even hear the interior rattles. Some of you are clearly here because you cant afford a F car, so you want poor man’s Ferrari driving a 911 GT car. But I doubt you will drive your car like you stole it in real life.
Some of you are delusional. Thats the word.
How many of the gen 1 gt3 cars have gone through at least 1 engine? There are cars on their 4th engine here.
There are gen2 cars popping up with engine failures (different reasons, but still).
The mighty mezger engine. Right. Lets see... you have to do the coolant lines ($3000-4000). You have to rebuild the diff because the rear steps out under heavy breaking ($3000-5000). The clutch doesnt last more than 20k miles, even less if its an RS. Brake pads need changing every 10k miles.
You want to hear my experience driving, ahem daily driving, my shelby gt350. 49,000 miles as of today. Multiple, numerous 8250 rpm shifts. Do you know what I had to change in that car besides oil in almost 50,000 miles? Hmmm cabin air filter ($20). Fuel filter ($29). And thats about it.... Do you know how many times it went to a dealer in its entire life time? Total? 2 (TWO). Yes not a typo. And both times it was my fault but Ford covered it. Try that in your “GT” car and let me know how it works. Most of you wont drive these cars more than 50 miles a month so, I guess you’ll never let me know.
Have you actually owned these GT cars past 10k miles? Do you know the annual service required for these cars - simply daily driving it, going WOT occasionally? Minimum 2-3 oil changes, spark plugs and sometimes coils, transmission fluid. Thats $5,000 worth of annual service per year. And thats if you make it there without engine blowing up or cats failing or exhaust valves going bad.
come on... give me a break.
The pushrod 6.2 liter can go and go and go and go for tens of thousands of miles. They are bullet proof. You change your oil once every 6000-7000 miles (and thats 9 quart of cheap $10 oil) and you are done. No service necessary elsewhere for 6-7 maybe 8 years assuming car sees 6000-7000 miles/year.
Have you heard a ZR1 at WOT on 1-2-3 gears? I strongly recommend you do. I have driven all of these cars. ZR1 is GT2RS levels performance but without the problems of turbo (lag, lack of noise, muted character).
Quality? The fact that you quote interior quality so many times to me show you and I have completely different expectations from a car. Because the way i drive my car, there is simply no TIME to even briefly look at the inside. There is no WAY to even hear the interior rattles. Some of you are clearly here because you cant afford a F car, so you want poor man’s Ferrari driving a 911 GT car. But I doubt you will drive your car like you stole it in real life.
No one here has attacked Corvettes or put them down. I personally think that the C6 and C7 has been a tremendous performance value with improving quality . However in the past Corvettes just have not measured up to the fit, finish, Performance and quality you get from Porsche. The value quotient also included superior resale value and desirability.
Yes the .1GT3s had their valve train issues and consequential engine issues but Porsche to their credit stepped up and stood behind these cars. The failures were due to defective valve train components from suppliers and not a design issue. I can’t think of one manufacture that would do it Porsche did extending the warrantees on these cars for 10 years and owning up to the issue without a lawsuit. I have friends now who are calling me complaining about problems with their C7 exhaust valves wanting me to sue Chevrolet. Dealers won’t even work with them in changing out the cars under the lemon law.
requirements.
GT 350 isn’t perfect either. They have had numerous mechanical problems including engines which rattled apart or exploded. Why do you think Ford pulled the flat plane crank drivetrain their GT4 Mustangs in the Continental series and replaced it with the old Boss 302 drivetrain punched out to a 5.2?
If you track your car a lot then you know that going to any DE paddock you can’t shake a stick without hitting a Porsche GT car. Why do you think there are so many of them at at the track? Because they are reliable, stout and go like stink.
As to the guys here not being able to afford Ferraris and painting the Porsche GT cars as the redheaded stepsister to F cars I think that is unfair and far from accurate. Guys who own Porsche Gt cars have them because they prefer them. I personally have no interest in owning a Ferrari and never did. I think they’re beautiful but they just don’t do anything for me.
There are members here that have an excess of 20,000 track miles on their Porsche GT cars which have been dead reliable.
I think many of your statements are overgeneralized if not inaccurate.
The following 2 users liked this post by Waxer:
thinkingmonkey (08-27-2019),
two2012spyders (08-28-2019)
08-26-2019, 03:41 PM
#51
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
08-26-2019, 05:32 PM
#53
It is clear, some of these comments are from people who have watched the vette in youtube but never properly drove it. There is nothing wrong with the supercharger noise btw, it is not like the obnoxious hellcat noise, but thats besides the point.
At only 2895 samples produced worldwide, it is not a car you will see everywhere. Stick shifts are around 750 or so that goes between coupe and convertible. Coupe cars that has the high wing and stick shift (like many of us here would order them) is probably under 500 cars worldwide. Front engine, rear wheel drive, non turbo, stick shift, 800 horses, 700 torque. This stuff will be impossible to see in the near future (and not distant future). I strongly recommend you get behind the wheel of one or ride in one as passenger.
As I said, I have driven the GT cars, lots of it in every combination. WP or not WP, exposed CF or painted, magnesium wheels, 997.2 RS with single mass lightweight flywheel. I have seen and driven them all. I’m as purist as you will see (in the process of ordering an ariel atom 4) so my comments should not be seen as “another v8 fan”.
To me the maintenance and repair cost of the Porsches along with the lack of low end torque/top end power were the reasons for not getting one. If I had endless supply of money, sure I would get an RS. But I dont. They are fun cars but 15 minute into each of my drive when the reality of not being able to rev the car above 5000 rpm set in, I came to the conclusion that I simply wont be able to properly drive them.
The ZR1 can simply be enjoyed in stop and go traffic, highway, canyon twisties, tracks, everywhere. Its fun at WOT near redline, its fun at 1200 rpm downshifting, its fun changing lanes. Porsche is also fun but simply put you dont get to enjoy it.
I drive a gt350 as well, an with my addition of ariel atom, I will have 3 pretty intense cars, all stick shift. So spare me the “not purist” song
Sorry if my previous post angered some members No hard feelings.
At only 2895 samples produced worldwide, it is not a car you will see everywhere. Stick shifts are around 750 or so that goes between coupe and convertible. Coupe cars that has the high wing and stick shift (like many of us here would order them) is probably under 500 cars worldwide. Front engine, rear wheel drive, non turbo, stick shift, 800 horses, 700 torque. This stuff will be impossible to see in the near future (and not distant future). I strongly recommend you get behind the wheel of one or ride in one as passenger.
As I said, I have driven the GT cars, lots of it in every combination. WP or not WP, exposed CF or painted, magnesium wheels, 997.2 RS with single mass lightweight flywheel. I have seen and driven them all. I’m as purist as you will see (in the process of ordering an ariel atom 4) so my comments should not be seen as “another v8 fan”.
To me the maintenance and repair cost of the Porsches along with the lack of low end torque/top end power were the reasons for not getting one. If I had endless supply of money, sure I would get an RS. But I dont. They are fun cars but 15 minute into each of my drive when the reality of not being able to rev the car above 5000 rpm set in, I came to the conclusion that I simply wont be able to properly drive them.
The ZR1 can simply be enjoyed in stop and go traffic, highway, canyon twisties, tracks, everywhere. Its fun at WOT near redline, its fun at 1200 rpm downshifting, its fun changing lanes. Porsche is also fun but simply put you dont get to enjoy it.
I drive a gt350 as well, an with my addition of ariel atom, I will have 3 pretty intense cars, all stick shift. So spare me the “not purist” song
Sorry if my previous post angered some members
No hard feelings.
08-26-2019, 05:42 PM
#54
Drifting
22k miles on my 2016RS. I beat on this car every time I get in it. Its been close to perfect and let me add its brutally hot here in the summers. I don't think the ZR1 is a bad car its just not for me.
08-26-2019, 06:12 PM
#55
Not interested until GM fixes their build quality issues.
08-26-2019, 06:15 PM
#56
If the build quality issue were to be fixed, you simply could not purchase a corvette at 1/3-1/4 cost of a GT car. Full stop.
This is like saying “I want personal courier service” to amazon prime delivery and complaining about usps mail delivery quality. You get what you pay for.
This is like saying “I want personal courier service” to amazon prime delivery and complaining about usps mail delivery quality. You get what you pay for.
08-26-2019, 06:17 PM
#57
If the build quality issue were to be fixed, you simply could not purchase a corvette at 1/3-1/4 cost of a GT car. Full stop.
This is like saying “I want personal courier service” to amazon prime delivery and complaining about usps mail delivery quality. You get what you pay for.
This is like saying “I want personal courier service” to amazon prime delivery and complaining about usps mail delivery quality. You get what you pay for.
08-26-2019, 06:19 PM
#58
You would, I would, heck i m sure that mooty guy would too. But thats 3 new sales and 39,997 lost sales. The market corvette sells is very different. It doesnt make business sense. Corvette has to sell 40,000 cars/year between all models. Corvette cannot afford to sell cars at 100,000/piece base.
08-26-2019, 06:39 PM
#59
Love my Porsche's, on my 12th. Currently a 2019 GT3. Great track cars and AX cars, but have to say I am impressed with the C7 Grandsport. Great handling, and you can use all of the 465 hp, not to mention big torque. C7 Grandsport is track time equivalent to my previous 16 RS and faster than my 15 GT3. (Reference Hockenheim and VIR times) That's not too shabby. Good friend has almost 12K miles on his C7 Grandsport, 10K+ track miles, and it has been dead nuts reliable. He just changed brake pads, fluid and tires. Same as I do on my P cars. Will always keep a Porsche, but admit that I am in the market for a new GS.Last of a breed and again, an impressive car, especially for the $. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of.
