.1RS vs. .2RS at Laguna Seca
08-29-2019, 12:59 AM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
.1RS vs. .2RS at Laguna Seca
So my coach, Jeff, posted up this video today of some fanstastic driving by @Serge944 in a .1RS and .2RS. Both are 1:33 lap times with only .14 seconds separating the two (1:33.84 and 1:33.98). Congrats to Serge on the killer laptime in his new .2RS! I've been wanting to break in the 1:33s myself, but haven't been able to yet (1:34.1).
There's a nice commentary by Jeff about what he thinks about the performance differences between the 2 cars. Frankly, I'm not surprised at all. Porsche makes cars incrementally better. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on with Porsche running the cup2R for ring lap times. I think Porsche is kind of cheating when they run cup2R since they aren't factory equipped tires. I wish they wouldn't do that.
There's a nice commentary by Jeff about what he thinks about the performance differences between the 2 cars. Frankly, I'm not surprised at all. Porsche makes cars incrementally better. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on with Porsche running the cup2R for ring lap times. I think Porsche is kind of cheating when they run cup2R since they aren't factory equipped tires. I wish they wouldn't do that.
08-29-2019, 07:37 AM
#5
Race Car
Good video. I agree with narrator (Jeff) that the tire thing is kind of BS. But along the same lines the fixation on Ring times is silly. It doesn't mean anything - zip, zero, nada - for street driving. And frankly it doesn't mean much for track driving either.
For DE (the only type of track driving anyone with an RS is really doing) none of this matters. Comes down to whether you enjoy owning the car, enjoy your seat time and whether you can get it set up the way you want. People would be a lot better served paying for pro-coaching and getting off of the Porsche upgrade wheel if they want to go faster at the track. If you want bragging rights on the street then by all means.
For DE (the only type of track driving anyone with an RS is really doing) none of this matters. Comes down to whether you enjoy owning the car, enjoy your seat time and whether you can get it set up the way you want. People would be a lot better served paying for pro-coaching and getting off of the Porsche upgrade wheel if they want to go faster at the track. If you want bragging rights on the street then by all means.
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08-29-2019, 09:40 AM
#6
Race Director
Good video. I agree with narrator (Jeff) that the tire thing is kind of BS. But along the same lines the fixation on Ring times is silly. It doesn't mean anything - zip, zero, nada - for street driving. And frankly it doesn't mean much for track driving either.
For DE (the only type of track driving anyone with an RS is really doing) none of this matters. Comes down to whether you enjoy owning the car, enjoy your seat time and whether you can get it set up the way you want. People would be a lot better served paying for pro-coaching and getting off of the Porsche upgrade wheel if they want to go faster at the track. If you want bragging rights on the street then by all means.
For DE (the only type of track driving anyone with an RS is really doing) none of this matters. Comes down to whether you enjoy owning the car, enjoy your seat time and whether you can get it set up the way you want. People would be a lot better served paying for pro-coaching and getting off of the Porsche upgrade wheel if they want to go faster at the track. If you want bragging rights on the street then by all means.
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08-29-2019, 10:42 AM
#8
Pro
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08-29-2019, 12:25 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
In both instances, tires were Dunlops on their 2nd heat cycle. The .1 probably had slightly better track conditions since it was 1.5 hours earlier in the morning with cooler ambient temps. The .1 was in factory delivered alignment, rear anti roll bar on full stiff; the .2 was realigned after the first track day solely because the handling out of the box was terrible (-2F/-2.5R camber was also dialed in per the specs provided by @stout ). Both cars set to the maximum downforce.
The biggest variable in this situation is unquestionably the driver. The driving isn't metronomic like you would expect from a professional driver, and both laps have mistakes which impact lap time:
.1: Turn 10 slide caused by slightly late turn-in.
.2: Turn 5 apex/exit speed was slow which lost time between T5 and T6.
I think getting into the 1:32.xx is possible, but it would require better driver focus and execution.
Conclusion:
To say that the .2 is a tenth and a half faster at Laguna would be incorrect. What you could say is that they are both "close" in performance at Laguna and that the .2 undoubtably sounds better.
The biggest variable in this situation is unquestionably the driver. The driving isn't metronomic like you would expect from a professional driver, and both laps have mistakes which impact lap time:
.1: Turn 10 slide caused by slightly late turn-in.
.2: Turn 5 apex/exit speed was slow which lost time between T5 and T6.
I think getting into the 1:32.xx is possible, but it would require better driver focus and execution.
Conclusion:
To say that the .2 is a tenth and a half faster at Laguna would be incorrect. What you could say is that they are both "close" in performance at Laguna and that the .2 undoubtably sounds better.
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08-29-2019, 01:13 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Serge, after following you for a couple days at LS I saw you were the one to follow for local knowledge, it was fun. Do you think the added silencers you used would be enough for my stock GT3 to pass?
Thanks, Mike
Thanks, Mike
08-29-2019, 01:51 PM
#12
Drifting
Awesome video, thanks for posting!
Do you have more alignment info on the .2 other than camber? What about ride height, by chance?
I have some track days coming up in my .2 3RS and am thinking about having alignment and corner balance done. Not sure if I should do it before or after first track day (so I have a baseline).
In both instances, tires were Dunlops on their 2nd heat cycle. The .1 probably had slightly better track conditions since it was 1.5 hours earlier in the morning with cooler ambient temps. The .1 was in factory delivered alignment, rear anti roll bar on full stiff; the .2 was realigned after the first track day solely because the handling out of the box was terrible (-2F/-2.5R camber was also dialed in per the specs provided by @stout ). Both cars set to the maximum downforce.
The biggest variable in this situation is unquestionably the driver. The driving isn't metronomic like you would expect from a professional driver, and both laps have mistakes which impact lap time:
.1: Turn 10 slide caused by slightly late turn-in.
.2: Turn 5 apex/exit speed was slow which lost time between T5 and T6.
I think getting into the 1:32.xx is possible, but it would require better driver focus and execution.
Conclusion:
To say that the .2 is a tenth and a half faster at Laguna would be incorrect. What you could say is that they are both "close" in performance at Laguna and that the .2 undoubtably sounds better.
The biggest variable in this situation is unquestionably the driver. The driving isn't metronomic like you would expect from a professional driver, and both laps have mistakes which impact lap time:
.1: Turn 10 slide caused by slightly late turn-in.
.2: Turn 5 apex/exit speed was slow which lost time between T5 and T6.
I think getting into the 1:32.xx is possible, but it would require better driver focus and execution.
Conclusion:
To say that the .2 is a tenth and a half faster at Laguna would be incorrect. What you could say is that they are both "close" in performance at Laguna and that the .2 undoubtably sounds better.
I have some track days coming up in my .2 3RS and am thinking about having alignment and corner balance done. Not sure if I should do it before or after first track day (so I have a baseline).
08-29-2019, 01:57 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Kudos to the creator of this, a head to head lineup of two nearly identical cars. I’d love to know what the ad revenue ends up coming in at.
Brb, going to do a head to head comparison of slow cooking a pot roast for 6 hours versus 5 hours and 55 minutes.
Brb, going to do a head to head comparison of slow cooking a pot roast for 6 hours versus 5 hours and 55 minutes.
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PDKMEH (08-31-2019)
08-29-2019, 01:57 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Really nice data point, and all the more because it isn't with a pro driver—and alignment and other variables are addressed. Same day, same driver, and a driver that is at the higher end of the customer segment. So, more applicable. Thanks for doing this!
One thing I will note: I tend to agree on the 2R discussion, and this video—while one data point—underlines an odd takeaway I've had: Good as the 991.2 GT3 RS is—and that's very good, especially when well aligned—the stiffer chassis has traded away some of the shocking duality of the 991.1 GT3 RS, which is so comfortable on the street that you have to check your mirrors to see the wing that confirms you are in an RS while being a beast on track. One would be a fool to turn down one over the other as a track-day machine, but the 991.1 GT3 RS remains seriously compelling because most of us have to travel real distances to get to a track day, and a car that's more comfortable for that trip and nearly as quick on track is a very nice proposition indeed…
One thing I will note: I tend to agree on the 2R discussion, and this video—while one data point—underlines an odd takeaway I've had: Good as the 991.2 GT3 RS is—and that's very good, especially when well aligned—the stiffer chassis has traded away some of the shocking duality of the 991.1 GT3 RS, which is so comfortable on the street that you have to check your mirrors to see the wing that confirms you are in an RS while being a beast on track. One would be a fool to turn down one over the other as a track-day machine, but the 991.1 GT3 RS remains seriously compelling because most of us have to travel real distances to get to a track day, and a car that's more comfortable for that trip and nearly as quick on track is a very nice proposition indeed…
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08-29-2019, 02:50 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Awesome video, thanks for posting!
Do you have more alignment info on the .2 other than camber? What about ride height, by chance?
I have some track days coming up in my .2 3RS and am thinking about having alignment and corner balance done. Not sure if I should do it before or after first track day (so I have a baseline).
Do you have more alignment info on the .2 other than camber? What about ride height, by chance?
I have some track days coming up in my .2 3RS and am thinking about having alignment and corner balance done. Not sure if I should do it before or after first track day (so I have a baseline).
Note that the toe settings are within the factory range, just to a tighter tolerance. The specified rear control arm shims are mandatory to achieve -2.5 rear camber. I found that there is not enough range of adjustment in the eccentric to achieve it with the factory installed 4mm shims.
Regarding setup changes, I like to take the “one change at a time” approach. I wouldn't hesitate to track the car as delivered the first time, but the alternate approach would be to have the alignment checked to confirm its within spec.