3-Pedals

Can't get the sound out of my head, particularly Novitech videos I have been watching. I am afraid to go drive one because of how intoxicating it sounds. But then what's the catch? There is always a catch. Their prices seem to be coming down a lot.

RudyP

My father had an F12 for a while. Amazing engine but a handful to drive and the biggest issue for me (and maybe for you given your username) is automatic transmission only.

Richard_Wallace

I had an F12 for ~4 years, got an allocation for an 812, but went with a Mclaren 720S instead.

Got to spend a weekend with the 812SF before deciding to not stick with Ferrari.

My few observations:

First on the F12 - which I think was one of the best looking ferrari's since the 1960s. That along with the 458 spider I had (which I miss). The F12 was one of the most tail happy and somewhat dangerous cars I have had. So much so, very rarely did I allow anyone drive it. One slight push on the right pedal going around a small curve, the backend would come right out on you.. Very twitchy car. Almost like a 70's muscle car in its behavior. I also had tons of electrical problems with it, and just so happened - just after warranty was out - of course.

When I told my dealer, that while I love the looks and sound of the F12 (that V12 is just Glorious) - I told him the twitchiness of it - I was not sure I wanted to move to the new 812SF replacement - due to I did not feel like dying every time I drove the F12, and I figured the 812 (more HP) would be worse. So I got invited to a full weekend experience (Road and Track use of the newly released 812). Well the 812 solved almost all those problems. Very planted, not near as twitchy, only when you wanted it to be and pushing it - the way it should be. Same love for the big V12 and the sound was also just as good as the F12. I did/still do prefer the looks of the F12 a bit more (a little more simplistic). I decided not to go with it, even though it was much better, more refined and not twitchy. I opted out of nearly 20 years of F-car ownership due to the way they were treating customers and how many issues I had had with my last couple F-cars. I had tons of issues with my 458 spider (as much as I enjoyed that mid-engined go cart), and the eye watering costs and issues (before and after the warranty period) with my F12. I just decided, if I want a F-car in the future, I would go used and not play the keep buying one to stay on the VIP list (which I was also tired of). As once you refuse an allocation - you are moved down, refuse 2 and you are out.

Bottom line the 812SF is a great car, corrected many of the handling issues the F12 had, and has that awesome NA V12 - and the best sound you can get IMO. I have not heard (on F-Chat) the woes of issues some of us had on our F12 (though I do not follow it as closely) - so maybe the issues Ferrari were having on quality has improved. My general rule of thumb though, keep 5K per year at the ready for maintenance/issues, as these are not porsche from a cost of ownership perspective.

3-Pedals

Thanks guys, very helpful. I have been reading the ferrari chat about F12 and 812 and seems like Ferrari ownership is a bit different than Porsche ownership. When the hood of my $58,995 ford mustang GT350 bubbled, I made a huge deal out of it but when I read the rear of the 812 bubbling I started laughing so hard. I cannot believe this stuff happens to a $450,000 Ferrari. Then the engine consuming 1 liter of oil per 300 miles being normal and people hearing ticking noises and being low 7 quarts of oil. This isn't the bank vault 911 GT3 that I came to know and got too used to. I'm afraid this might drive me insane (and then I have to pay $400,000 for the car which is the cost of a GT3 and a Z06 with some pocket change left for mods).

rk-d

Never driven an 812. Talked to people who have driven both and heard the Ferrari feels bigger and a less nimble than the GT3. Great engine though.

fskof

A Porsche GT car and a Ferrari 812 make the perfect garage combo. Also I don't know why people are talking about the F12 because The 812 drives much better than the F12. Go drive one and decide if it's what you are looking for. Life is too short to drive crappy cars!

VECCA

Your 720S looks amazing. I've been looking into F12's. Most of the people I have talked to that have gone from F12 to 812 have never looked back. The 812 is that good. That being said, everyone I have talked to that has a 720S RAVES about it. "Best car they've ever had". I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I think it's a reasonable question...

Is the 720S everything we've all read?

3-Pedals

Not that I would ever track a 812 but how is its nurburgring time is so slow? It's almost at the pace of the M5 CS. Is it simply the chassis?

Richard_Wallace

Firstly to the other posts - yes the 812 is miles better handling wise (as I mentioned than the F12) - they seemed to correct nearly every fault the F12 had (minus I still think the F12 is one of the best looking ferrari's).

Since I got to run the 812 on both road and track at the Ferrari experience weekend. (I did not track my F12). The F12 and 812 would get dusted in nearly every variant of the GT3 (RS, GT2, etc.) - it is a big big GT car in every aspect. It is highly comfortable, big, lumbering (relative to the GT3 or even Mid-Engine F-cars or Lambo's). Just a completely different car, and really not as much about speed/track time as it is a pure GT touring car. With a huge NA engine, and a symphony of an exhaust note. Can't beat that really.

As to the question about the 720S. I am not sure how many exotics I have had, in the dozens at this point over the past 25+ years. While I will always have a porsche 911 in my garage as I do think it is one of the best sports cars money can buy - and I always point those who want to buy their first sports car to a 911 as well... With that said, it is nice to be able to have a fun weekend car or two for something different. It is hard to put the 720s into perspective. I honestly think it is one of the best overall exotics I have ever had: Ridiculus speed, still one of the fastest (both quick and lap time) that you can get, and for the money - hard to really beat it. Looks wise it is super exotic looking (especially in the Volcano Red that I got, and some of the other skittle colors you can get)). I have had it new since late 2018 - so over 4 years in, longest I have ever keep an exotic. I have had no issues with it, outside of oil and tires and when early on, some basic warranty stuff. I only put 3-4K on per year as I have some other to drive, but 4+ year on, it is always an event to drive it, it literally will take your breath away in acceleration, handles like an AWD, corners like a go-cart, has a top end that never stops, great on track, and can be comfortable on the street like a GT.

Overall just a great car, I keep thinking of selling it and getting something different. Looked at a buddies SF90, got to drive the 765LT (which is next level 720s - almost defies physics), etc. But the SF90 while impressive, scared me with all the electronics (if I had electronic issues on my F12 and 458 before that - which had very few electronics) - I do not like what will likely happen to the SF90 once warranty is up. As for the 765LT, this would be the one to move to, but even now would be 200K more, and frankly the 720s is fast enough - outside a track, it is so unusable... and on a track, there is no way I could ever use 80% of what the 720 has - I am not that good..

For ~250 - 320K you can pick up a used 720s, and I do not think there is much better bargain right now on a car that is so ridiculously capable in nearly every aspect.

But I will leave you with this. My buddies that come over to my garage ask me this one question.. Of all my cars if I could keep one and only one - what would it be. It would be my 911 GT3 Touring.. All the others could go,,, (Second would be my 911 Targa - as it is more practical Day to day driving).

3-Pedals

That last sentence is very important to point out.

VECCA

Wow. That says a lot. I do love my Touring. There always seems to be a small part of me wondering if the grass is actually greener... Thanks very much for your post.

Fapdds

I own a f12, I agree with everything that has been said including that the 812 is better, the rear steering changes the characteristics tremendously, I wanted to buy a 812 but it didn't work out. I prefer the style of the F12 over the 812. It was the last Ferrari designed by Pina Farina. As far as deciding between a gt3 and a 812 , they are not the same car, they could not be more different, The porsche is on rails and the V12 ferraris are rocket launch vehicles wrapped in fine italian leather, I did fall in love with the f12 as I did with the Gt3 and I would not give either of them up at this point, the only catch I can think of is that the F12 ( much less with the 812 because of the added technology) is not to be under estimated, the power of these cars is stupid. they can be dangerous if not careful. I never de activate the safety features. Otherwise, the

Ferrari drive and sound is intoxicating!

jhott66

I don't have a F12 or 812 but I have a FF and 991.2 GT3. The FF has the same powertrain as the F12 but with the front PTO which makes it a version of "all-wheel" drive in gears 1-2-3 and in certain drive modes. It is pure RWD in sport and track mode. The FF has a very long wheel base and is not comfortable on back country roads. I believe the rear wheel steer in the 812 and GTC4 Lusso make those "better" cars. The FF is also quite heavy and you definitely feel the weight. The F12 and 812 are quite a bit heavier than the GT3 as well. FF likes to cruise at HIGH speed on the interstate (something we have nothing of here in the USA). I have driven a F12 and ridden in 812. I agree with the above statements: The modern V12 Ferrari is a rocket ship, pure and simple. There is NOTHING like the sound combined with the acceleration of these cars. It is intoxicating and makes me giggle like a kid. The GT3 sounds fantastic but nothing like a Ferrari V12. The GT3 is more responsive in transition/direction change, has better brake feel, is noticeably slower acceleration. You really can't compare the cars. My Ferrari is reliable. I have only owned it for 18 months, have Ferrari's version of the CPO warranty. It's a solid car. Lots of leather and luxury; Porsche is nowhere near Ferrari in this regard.
Finally, Italian cars have a "personality" that German cars simply don't have. Everything from the steering response to the "event" of the drive in an Italian car is simply unmatched. For as fantastic as a Porsche is, it's not a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or even an Alfa Romeo. Every car enthusiast should own an Italian at some point. It is an experience unmatched in my opinion. Living with a Porsche is an easy experience; living with a Ferrari is an adventure.
And yes, even though the FF only has 660 horsepower compared the 720 in F12 and near 800 in 812 I still feel at times the thing wants to kill me. I guess that is part of the experience?

3-Pedals

How much does the 812 weigh? I have seen figures wildly different. The most trustworthy one is motortrend and their article states its 3850 lbs? https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/

I thought it was more like 911 Turbo S weight - around 3600 lbs.

Tupper

This thread is really informative. Thanks to everyone with their input.

Other than some BMW's all I've owned is a 911 and a V10 R8, both cars that I've thoroughly loved, but I have thought about swapping in either a V12 Ferrari or a 720S

The 812's are still too pricey in my book, but it looks like a fairly low mileage pre-owned 720s can be had in the mid-upper $200's range, which definitely catches my interest!