MaxLTV

I had a chance to play with a GT4 last weekend. It was driven by supposedly an extremely good driver (Dave Potter). I only say "supposedly", because I do not know him well - he seemed to kick ***, and people I trust say it takes extra 200hp to catch him, so I do not feel as bad for being slower through some turns. Ignore lap times - it was a very windy and dusty day, and we were struggling to get over 1.1G even on relatively fresh MPSC2 tires (vs. usual 1.3G). The vid is interesting only to compare two cars. My goal was not to pass but to hang with him and steal his secrets , so I lifted on straights when it was needed to keep safe distance (it did not happen often - he was FAST).

If you watch where he was losing me and where I was catching him (mine and his mistakes aside and focusing on just car performance), there is a bit of a pattern of where GT3 is somewhat better:

1. Straights - no question here, GT3 walks GT4. It's not as obvious on some straights because the other driver is better at maximizing exist speeds, but when exit speed is comparable, I had to lift way before breaking zone not to run into him.

2. Power out of long corners (e.g., 14-15 combo and exit of 3) - I can go full throttle there earlier, it seems. I did not go full throttle out of 3 on the vid some laps, but that's because he was too close in front or I made a mistake - normally it's 100% doable. I'm not sure if it was understeer or oversteer that held him back there.

He also started braking earlier than I would in some areas, but I'm not sure if that was necessary or just a preference.

On the other hand, when his car was sliding or rotating, he seemed to have lost less speed than a comparable slide would have cost me in GT3. Could be the driver but could be the lower moment of inertia of sliding the rear end. I remember in M3 slides where almost "free" in terms of lost speed, while GT3 really hates to slide.

In summary, GT3 + a hack driver is same of slightly faster than GT4 + an expert driver.

mlpor

Just a guess, but it sort of looked to me that one other place the GT3 is picking up speed vs. the GT4 is in its ability to put power down every place there's an up or down shift required - you've got a gearing advantage over the GT4 in addition to the "gross" @475 vs. 380bhp, power advantage.

Either way, nice video, thanks for sharing.

-eztrader-

What exhaust are you running? Just curious from video

Loess

Thanks for posting. That's a great video to watch. The only difference I see is that it looks like you are turning in slightly earlier than him.

orthojoe

It really was a treat to finally meet him in person on Saturday. Such a nice guy, awesome driver, and humble too. He was nice enough to share video with me and gave me permission to post.

Video of him chasing me on Saturday


Video of his best lap the following day. 1:58.2! In a stock GT4 with more to go!

MaxLTV

Is he a pro? I can see that I could barely catch him despite hp, pdk and rear steering advantages. So I hope he is a pro of some kind

orthojoe

I don't think so. He does PCA races, but he's just there for fun like you and me. Just a really good driver and guy.

hlee1169

Were you all running in the red group? I certainly did not see the white GT4 running in the blue/green group...

bronson7

Great stuff guys, enjoyed that.

Manifold

Goes to show how higher corner average and exit speed can make up for less power. In my experience, Caymans generally do well with ripping through corners, allowing lots of quick adjustments in corners to help stay near the edge without scrubbing speed (as the driver of the GT4 was routinely doing). Seems that a different (and perhaps more involved) technique is needed with a 911 (even 991 GT3) to get similar results, especially in terms of trailbraking.

orthojoe

Red group. It would be interesting to see cars running sub 2:00 in blue/green, though.
I saw your orange RS! Didn't realize that was you. Sorry we didnt get a chance to connect!

consolidated

True. In my RS I steer with the throttle and brake much more than in a Cayman, SPB, or GT4. Too much trail braking and you get into scrub instead of rotation, they don't tolerate big slip angles, wheels sorta lined up, clean steering inputs without big corrections is fast.

My RS cockpit is a much busier place. The fast SPBs drovers look like they're out for groceries but rolling huge speed thru the corners.

MaxLTV

Stock exhaust. Microphone was closer to intake than to exhaust, though - it's attached to the bottom of the carbon-fiber panel under the rear "hood" with the wire routed internally so that there is no need to mess with wires and tape every time.

It was a very fun day. It was also the first time since last winter that I ran front and rear tires with equal amount of grip, and I realized that the car understeers in this set up. It was an adjustment to me because last 6+ month the car oversteered mad (first I had a heatcycled set in the back, then K-spec tires that did not work well). Now with same tires all around, I had underteer in corner 6 entry, around 2, in 11, even with trailbraking. It was not strong, but I got used to more lively setup already, so I'd rather dial it out. Maybe stiffen the rear bar? At the same time it was nice NOT to have oversteer in T8 at 95MPH+

MaxLTV

Red group, last session of the day on Sunday, hence empty track.

goin2drt

Seems like a lot of comparo's with the GT3 vs GT4. I would like to see or hear of someone really good driving a stock GT4 and a stock Cayman R to see the difference in lap times.

Thanks for sharing the video's, they sure are cool.