First 12C drive vs my 2014 Porsche GT3
03-24-2016, 11:15 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
First 12C drive vs my 2014 Porsche GT3
I drove over to Omaha today to Woodhouse Porsche who had traded in a 2012 12C in Mercury Red with 8100 miles on. I have owned my 2014 Porsche GT3 for a little over a year and have about 3200 miles on it. I spent about 1.5 hours in the 12C on the freeway and in town. These are two very different cars, both great in their own way.
I thank Brian and Mitch at Woodhouse for allowing me to drive their 12C which I was seriously considering. Below are some differences I noticed.
-Appearance: From every angle except the back I think the McLaren wins. Love the wing on the GT3 and it's cleaner rear end. I prefer the CL wheels on the GT3 also.
-Clearance: 5.75 inches at low point under 12C front fascia, only 4 inches on the GT3 or 5.25 inches with it's lift engaged. Overhang distance from forward wheel well edge to front of the bumper both about the same at 24 inches. I think the lift a necessity on the GT3 but the McLaren is probably ok without one in 99% of situations.
-Entrance and exit: Far easier in the GT3. The 12C requires a new technique. One's butt on the sill first and then swinging the legs around one at time into the foot well. I found this the single biggest deterrent to using the car as a daily driver. This 12C had the swipe doors which, as I have read, worked intermittently.
-Cockpit: Once inside the 12C or GT3 is a quality place to be. I did feel the gauges were laid out and labeled better on the GT3. Perhaps this is just familiarity though.
-Seats: This 12C had the electric seats. I generally find seats have too deep of a bucket shape and both cars exhibit this which I over come with a home made cushion to set me up a bit higher. I'm short at 5 foot 7". Other than this I found both of them supportive and comfortable.
-Sound system: I did not get a chance to listen to anything more than FM classic rock so I prefer not to comment on the 12C. The GT3 system (even the sound package plus which I have) is terrible with a highly exaggerated nasal honk in the upper midrange that the tone controls will not fix. It's un-listenable on anything other than talk.
-Exhaust sound: Not even close here. The GT3 sounds way better with with or without it's sports exhaust button engaged. In track mode the 12C fared a bit better with good noise levels. Unfortunately it tends to have a bit of an angry vacuum cleaner quality to the sound. I don't know if it had sports exhaust or not.
-Noise levels: The 12C was reasonably quiet and fatigue was not an issue. There was some road noise that the CF tub may have occasionally exaggerated. I'd have to compare back to back to be able to say how the GT3 fares. Rocks and sand make lots of noise when they hit the GT3 inside fender wells though.
-Power delivery: Even in normal mode I was surprised at how well the McLaren delivered power until just before deep into the pedal. It was a bit Clark Kent in normal so I preferred driving in the sport setting. I did not go looking for Turbo lag but did not notice it under the relatively reserved driving I did. It takes a lot of travel on the accelerator pedal to deliver full power and when this happens there is clearly a big surge at the end. The GT3's NA motor has more tip in response but can't be beat for delivery over the entire range. I would want some time with the 12C on a track to see if this rush of power can be accessed smoothly with out bringing the rear end around. I have driven some fast cars before but the 12C gathers speed so fast that it blurred my vision. By comparison the GT3 is merely quick where the 12C feels rocket assisted.
-Chassis: The 12C feels like the car is pivoting around your butt in turns and is very neutral in cornering. You can feel the GT3's rear biased weight more even though the car tracks the line very well. Both cars under steer slightly on tight turns driving around a residential area. The 12C is absolutely flat and level in corners, as flat or flatter than non GT3 Porsche's with PDCC, their active anti-roll system. PDCC can make the handling feel a bit artificial which the 12C never did. The GT3 is also very flat but the 12 may have even less body roll. Got to love the mid engine balance. Under heavy acceleration in 2nd gear I was surprised how good traction was in the 12C. I expected it to squirm or fish tail but it squatted and spurted forward with only minimal movement. The GT3 has a similar traction trait and I think this is where the two cars are most alike.
-Ride quality: No comparison here either. The GT3 is clearly much choppier but does have a better sense of connection to the road, or is this just an illusion? On all but the bumpiest roads I did not find a difference between normal and sport on the 12C. It's true that the 12C ride is on par with a good sports sedan and would be comfortable on longer trips. I have never driven a sports car with so much capability that had such a good ride to boot. The disconnect is like watching a child sing and have a adult bass voice come out.
-Steering: The 12C has lower effort steering and not as much feel, but enough for me to tell if my front wheels were starting to slide. A lot more feedback from the GT3 with a bit more steering effort. Both are very precise in placing the car where you want it.
-Brakes: The 12C non ceramics have less initial bite, requires more pedal pressure and takes greater pedal travel to stop. The GT3's pccb's have a lot more initial bite with less pedal travel and the pedal gets hard faster. The 12C brakes actual remind me of my non pccb brakes on my 2009 Carrera S, which I liked a lot. I thought they gave slightly better modulation than the GT3 and could be applied a bit more smoothly. I think this is mostly what one is used to. Others with more driving skill may not agree.
-Usability: On short trips with frequent stops the GT3 wins here because of it's inside rear storage and easy ingress and egress. It's bumpy ride means it's not as well suited for a longer trip. Alternatively I would look forward to a road trip in the 12C although the 12C's totally unusable cup holder location must be McLaren's British idea of a joke.
-Fun: The 12C has more sense of occasion and manages to get even more attention than the GT3 and will leave any other virtually any other car in it's wake if you get on it. I think it is easier to have spirited driving fun at lower speeds in the GT3 with it's high rev-ing motor and great exhaust note.
-Conclusion: Two very different cars each equally valid. I do not think I will trade my GT3 for an early 2012 12C coupe. A 2013 or 2014 12C Spider or a 570S might change my mind. If I already owned a 12C I do not think I would trade it for a GT3 either. One wants both cars if money and storage are not an obstacle.
I thank Brian and Mitch at Woodhouse for allowing me to drive their 12C which I was seriously considering. Below are some differences I noticed.
-Appearance: From every angle except the back I think the McLaren wins. Love the wing on the GT3 and it's cleaner rear end. I prefer the CL wheels on the GT3 also.
-Clearance: 5.75 inches at low point under 12C front fascia, only 4 inches on the GT3 or 5.25 inches with it's lift engaged. Overhang distance from forward wheel well edge to front of the bumper both about the same at 24 inches. I think the lift a necessity on the GT3 but the McLaren is probably ok without one in 99% of situations.
-Entrance and exit: Far easier in the GT3. The 12C requires a new technique. One's butt on the sill first and then swinging the legs around one at time into the foot well. I found this the single biggest deterrent to using the car as a daily driver. This 12C had the swipe doors which, as I have read, worked intermittently.
-Cockpit: Once inside the 12C or GT3 is a quality place to be. I did feel the gauges were laid out and labeled better on the GT3. Perhaps this is just familiarity though.
-Seats: This 12C had the electric seats. I generally find seats have too deep of a bucket shape and both cars exhibit this which I over come with a home made cushion to set me up a bit higher. I'm short at 5 foot 7". Other than this I found both of them supportive and comfortable.
-Sound system: I did not get a chance to listen to anything more than FM classic rock so I prefer not to comment on the 12C. The GT3 system (even the sound package plus which I have) is terrible with a highly exaggerated nasal honk in the upper midrange that the tone controls will not fix. It's un-listenable on anything other than talk.
-Exhaust sound: Not even close here. The GT3 sounds way better with with or without it's sports exhaust button engaged. In track mode the 12C fared a bit better with good noise levels. Unfortunately it tends to have a bit of an angry vacuum cleaner quality to the sound. I don't know if it had sports exhaust or not.
-Noise levels: The 12C was reasonably quiet and fatigue was not an issue. There was some road noise that the CF tub may have occasionally exaggerated. I'd have to compare back to back to be able to say how the GT3 fares. Rocks and sand make lots of noise when they hit the GT3 inside fender wells though.
-Power delivery: Even in normal mode I was surprised at how well the McLaren delivered power until just before deep into the pedal. It was a bit Clark Kent in normal so I preferred driving in the sport setting. I did not go looking for Turbo lag but did not notice it under the relatively reserved driving I did. It takes a lot of travel on the accelerator pedal to deliver full power and when this happens there is clearly a big surge at the end. The GT3's NA motor has more tip in response but can't be beat for delivery over the entire range. I would want some time with the 12C on a track to see if this rush of power can be accessed smoothly with out bringing the rear end around. I have driven some fast cars before but the 12C gathers speed so fast that it blurred my vision. By comparison the GT3 is merely quick where the 12C feels rocket assisted.
-Chassis: The 12C feels like the car is pivoting around your butt in turns and is very neutral in cornering. You can feel the GT3's rear biased weight more even though the car tracks the line very well. Both cars under steer slightly on tight turns driving around a residential area. The 12C is absolutely flat and level in corners, as flat or flatter than non GT3 Porsche's with PDCC, their active anti-roll system. PDCC can make the handling feel a bit artificial which the 12C never did. The GT3 is also very flat but the 12 may have even less body roll. Got to love the mid engine balance. Under heavy acceleration in 2nd gear I was surprised how good traction was in the 12C. I expected it to squirm or fish tail but it squatted and spurted forward with only minimal movement. The GT3 has a similar traction trait and I think this is where the two cars are most alike.
-Ride quality: No comparison here either. The GT3 is clearly much choppier but does have a better sense of connection to the road, or is this just an illusion? On all but the bumpiest roads I did not find a difference between normal and sport on the 12C. It's true that the 12C ride is on par with a good sports sedan and would be comfortable on longer trips. I have never driven a sports car with so much capability that had such a good ride to boot. The disconnect is like watching a child sing and have a adult bass voice come out.
-Steering: The 12C has lower effort steering and not as much feel, but enough for me to tell if my front wheels were starting to slide. A lot more feedback from the GT3 with a bit more steering effort. Both are very precise in placing the car where you want it.
-Brakes: The 12C non ceramics have less initial bite, requires more pedal pressure and takes greater pedal travel to stop. The GT3's pccb's have a lot more initial bite with less pedal travel and the pedal gets hard faster. The 12C brakes actual remind me of my non pccb brakes on my 2009 Carrera S, which I liked a lot. I thought they gave slightly better modulation than the GT3 and could be applied a bit more smoothly. I think this is mostly what one is used to. Others with more driving skill may not agree.
-Usability: On short trips with frequent stops the GT3 wins here because of it's inside rear storage and easy ingress and egress. It's bumpy ride means it's not as well suited for a longer trip. Alternatively I would look forward to a road trip in the 12C although the 12C's totally unusable cup holder location must be McLaren's British idea of a joke.
-Fun: The 12C has more sense of occasion and manages to get even more attention than the GT3 and will leave any other virtually any other car in it's wake if you get on it. I think it is easier to have spirited driving fun at lower speeds in the GT3 with it's high rev-ing motor and great exhaust note.
-Conclusion: Two very different cars each equally valid. I do not think I will trade my GT3 for an early 2012 12C coupe. A 2013 or 2014 12C Spider or a 570S might change my mind. If I already owned a 12C I do not think I would trade it for a GT3 either. One wants both cars if money and storage are not an obstacle.
Last edited by john weires; 03-24-2016 at 11:17 PM. Reason: link did not work
03-24-2016, 11:28 PM
#2
Drifting
What a great review. Hopefully I'll have that chance to compare soon.
If the cards fall my way I'll add a McLaren Someday. Wouldn't replace the RS.
Just love everything about that car!
On that note (I do not want to hijack) Does McLaren have a driving experience in the UK? I'm going there in a couple of months.
If the cards fall my way I'll add a McLaren Someday. Wouldn't replace the RS.
Just love everything about that car!
On that note (I do not want to hijack) Does McLaren have a driving experience in the UK? I'm going there in a couple of months.
03-25-2016, 12:23 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
I had a '14 12C spider and a '15 GT3 at the same time. You are correct that they are totally different cars and it's difficult to just pick one. Now that they are both gone, if I had to pick just one to have again it would be the McLaren spider.
03-25-2016, 12:47 AM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Is that your Voodoo RS in the avatar?
03-25-2016, 01:23 AM
#6
Race Director
Awesome review, John. Thanks for sharing!
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03-25-2016, 01:48 AM
#8
A couple thoughts. Imho the sound experience is markedly better in the 12C spider than the coupe. The sport exhaust makes a big difference in sound quality. It nicely combines the flat crank V8 wail with the turbo whistles. It doesn't have the Hoover like sound quality of the 911 turbo. Even with the top up, the rear glass can be lowered to hear the noise. A quiet ride is an option simply by rolling up the rear window. Full-on loud and civilized are both available options with the press of a button.
The 12C is hugely let down by the standard P zeros it comes on. A set of Trofeo R's makes a huge difference in grip with only a modest increase in ride harshness. The truly great thing about the 12C is the amazing track grip and flat cornering combined with a much better street ride quality than a 911 turbo, let alone a GT3. The Tenneco kinetic suspension on the car is a marked improvement over anything I've experienced in a street car. It is quite supple over bumps but resists lateral roll very well.
Fwiw I've owned a few turbos, a gt3rs, and a couple Ferraris. The 12C spider's my favorite. Their steep initial depreciation has made them an alternative definitely worth considering.
The 12C is hugely let down by the standard P zeros it comes on. A set of Trofeo R's makes a huge difference in grip with only a modest increase in ride harshness. The truly great thing about the 12C is the amazing track grip and flat cornering combined with a much better street ride quality than a 911 turbo, let alone a GT3. The Tenneco kinetic suspension on the car is a marked improvement over anything I've experienced in a street car. It is quite supple over bumps but resists lateral roll very well.
Fwiw I've owned a few turbos, a gt3rs, and a couple Ferraris. The 12C spider's my favorite. Their steep initial depreciation has made them an alternative definitely worth considering.
03-25-2016, 01:54 AM
#9
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Nice review. If you decide you are really interested in a McLaren take the time and drive a 650 and 12C on same day. 650 is better in many ways.
The GT3 and 650 are very different. Both simply fantastic!
The GT3 and 650 are very different. Both simply fantastic!
03-25-2016, 02:04 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thanks for the review John. I am also thinking of adding a 12C as a companion to my GT3.
It would be interesting to have a comparison between the 650S and the GT3 to see what other differentiators it has compared to the GT3.
It would be interesting to have a comparison between the 650S and the GT3 to see what other differentiators it has compared to the GT3.
03-25-2016, 02:10 AM
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Just noticed location John. Where in Colorado? If you want a test run in my 650 let me know. Haven't yet had the chance to drive 570 (likely in April) and then I can compare.
03-25-2016, 02:18 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
03-25-2016, 05:43 AM
#14
Good review.
I had a '13 12c coupe for 15k miles. One of my favorite car experiences. About the only complaint I would have would be owning one out of warranty. That would be suicide.
That's the only thing holding me back from picking another one up at the crazy prices they're at now...
With the sport exhaust and sound imposer removed, they sound really good. Nothing like a turbo.
I had a '13 12c coupe for 15k miles. One of my favorite car experiences. About the only complaint I would have would be owning one out of warranty. That would be suicide.
That's the only thing holding me back from picking another one up at the crazy prices they're at now...
With the sport exhaust and sound imposer removed, they sound really good. Nothing like a turbo.
03-25-2016, 07:50 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
thanks for the review.I test drove a 12c for 10 minutes, but one thing you mentoined actually alarmed me on test drive and that was the brake feel. I felt I had to push the pedal down to the floor to stop the car. That car had only 2000 miles and it was a 2012. I told the SA that I think brakes were defective and never had a chance to drive another one.
any input from people that owned them for a couple of years ??
any input from people that owned them for a couple of years ??