Stop Sale?
04-23-2014, 01:04 PM
#4336
Drifting
Thanks Gents. The reward
Heres a little message to you Mr PAG if you are hanging out here and reading this. We are the passion behind your brand. Many of us live and breath Porsche. We want to believe in your product and want it to be the very best it can be. The 991 GT3 had a difficult and controversial birth. Those of us who have followed the product to this point deserve more than we are being given. By that I mean inclusion /communication and hardship consideration. Do the right thing PAG - look after us - keep us close to you as we are the core of the values by which you appear to be increasingly thinly trading upon....
Heres a little message to you Mr PAG if you are hanging out here and reading this. We are the passion behind your brand. Many of us live and breath Porsche. We want to believe in your product and want it to be the very best it can be. The 991 GT3 had a difficult and controversial birth. Those of us who have followed the product to this point deserve more than we are being given. By that I mean inclusion /communication and hardship consideration. Do the right thing PAG - look after us - keep us close to you as we are the core of the values by which you appear to be increasingly thinly trading upon....
Both of you walk tall , keep your head high, and be proud of what you two
(with a little help from RL buddies ) have accomplish in creating a solution
oriented path forward ,expediting the necessary resolution .
Hip Hip Who Ray!!!
hopefully soon we should be enjoying banter about thread color and warts
Deacon
04-23-2014, 01:33 PM
#4338
Intermediate
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Luxembourg
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Wow! The letter ended up with the Telegraph in the UK!
Well done guys!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...pensation.html
Well done guys!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...pensation.html
04-23-2014, 02:39 PM
#4339
04-23-2014, 02:59 PM
#4340
Rennlist Member
I will be the first to admit that I was skeptical that sending a letter to Porsche would result in Porsche doing anything other than what they have done. That said, after reviewing the letter and its tenor Porsche would be insane not to take some action to rectify the disparity between regions and stakeholders. GT3 owners are the Porsche brand ambassadors and to ignore them would be a huge mistake.
Mark and Mike have done a superlative job in capturing the mood of the GT3 stakeholders and articulating what would be fair and reasonable given what we have been put through. Since the day we ordered our cars there have been constant delays. The experience has been torturous.
Buying a Porsche should not be an exercise in agony.
Mark, Mike you have my appreciation and support. Porsche please listen. This is important to all of us.
Mark and Mike have done a superlative job in capturing the mood of the GT3 stakeholders and articulating what would be fair and reasonable given what we have been put through. Since the day we ordered our cars there have been constant delays. The experience has been torturous.
Buying a Porsche should not be an exercise in agony.
Mark, Mike you have my appreciation and support. Porsche please listen. This is important to all of us.
04-23-2014, 03:15 PM
#4341
Rennlist Member
Macca & Sierra Mike deserve all the credit for this hard work. Both have been up most nights for the past 2 weeks working on this and on our behalf. They are making calls all day and till early hours of the morning trying to place the final touches on what is being released to the public or media. There are really not enough words or thanks that can give these 2 fine individuals justice. With that said, it is time for the rest of us to lend a hand to these 2 fine gentlemen. I urge everyone who had not join the action group and have a stake in this fight to do so as soon as possible, and for the people who already joined including myself to stand tall and support both these guys in any way we can. Mark
04-23-2014, 05:45 PM
#4343
Rennlist Member
Thanks gents. With thanks like that makes it seem so much more worthwhile no matter how it all ends up.
Big personal thanks from me to Sierra Mike - without him this simply wouldn't have happened - he really is the brains behind the work and a consummate professional - Ive learnt plenty from him thorough out this journey. Thanks SM!
OK. Now we have to slam the wires. Lets wait 24 hours to see which agencies pick up our story and then we can find something written with right tone and balance we can use for a social media campaign ;-)
Big personal thanks from me to Sierra Mike - without him this simply wouldn't have happened - he really is the brains behind the work and a consummate professional - Ive learnt plenty from him thorough out this journey. Thanks SM!
OK. Now we have to slam the wires. Lets wait 24 hours to see which agencies pick up our story and then we can find something written with right tone and balance we can use for a social media campaign ;-)
04-23-2014, 05:47 PM
#4344
Rennlist Member
Here is something written by SM for another forum which helps to address a number of questions we have had from non stakeholder and stakeholders (not yet registered) alike. You may find it useful in answering some of your own questions or those others have of you....
I would like to offer some clarification on our efforts so far.
1. The reason people have turned to the group is because they're not getting any information of significance from Porsche's regional distributors. The group could not exist if Porsche's customers were satisfied with the way PAG is handling communication and information. Porsche couldn't even keep to its own communication timetable for an update and, when it did come, it was inadequate.
2. With members from all over the world who are supporting this initiative by sharing information and experiences, we have assembled a document archive of correspondence from different regions containing letters and emails.
3. It's clear from correspondence that Porsche AG is coordinating matters centrally albeit some variances according to region.
4. The Compensation Matrix is based on real offers of compensation that Porche's regional distributors have already made in their respective regions. It has been drafted following days of consultation with members who are genuine GT3 stakeholders in a private forum and reflects the feedback offered. Porsche has not only failed to consult with its customers but, having read feedback on forums across the world filled with complaints, has failed to take any action to address those complaints.
5. We accept that the car is priced differently according to region however, following consultation, we agreed to create a simplified matrix rather than an unnecessarily complicated one. Again, this is with the Group's agreement following lengthy discussion and consultation. Bear in mind that the car is cheaper in UAE than the US but the customers in UAE are being offered twice as much than their American counterparts. That said, the car is approaching $400k in China and some members there are not so much concerned about compensation but whether they will have to pay the full price for the car when it's eventually delivered or the recently reduced price by some $50k. This is yet another example of Porsche not communicating with its customers but dictating to them.
6. The numbers in the matrix are based on real numbers. In the US, customers who have paid $170k for the car are receiving the same $2k per month as customers who have a delayed order and placed a deposit of $5k. Taking the $2k as the base compensation for someone who has acted in reliance of receiving the car within a specific time period, we feel that is a generous offer, however that means the figure being offered to customers who have taken delivery are being under compensated. Customers who have paid and taken delivery of the car in Germany are being offered €175 Euros per day which is the figure we have taken for that category of customers worldwide because that is what Porsche is offering its home market. It was Porsche itself which set these parameters.
We are all Porsche enthusiasts and not looking for a confrontation but it's about time Porsche addressed everyone's complaints. We have undertaken exactly what Porsche should have done in the first place; we have consulted with and listened to affected GT3 customers and written to Porsche AG/VW AG accordingly following agreement with the 100+ strong Group regarding the correspondence and compensation. To the contrary, Porsche has chosen not to communicate with or consult its customers but has chosen to dictate to them.
The cost of the car has nothing to do with this matter. It's purely a consumer issue however some seem to take the view that customers' complaints would be more valid if the car was not as expensive. At the end of the day, we'd be over the moon to see the cars back on the road asap and we're all very sure that Porsche's engineering department is working on this around the clock. Porsche builds great cars but unfortunately its customer support does not measure up to that same standard.
Kind Regards
Sierra Mike & Macca
I would like to offer some clarification on our efforts so far.
1. The reason people have turned to the group is because they're not getting any information of significance from Porsche's regional distributors. The group could not exist if Porsche's customers were satisfied with the way PAG is handling communication and information. Porsche couldn't even keep to its own communication timetable for an update and, when it did come, it was inadequate.
2. With members from all over the world who are supporting this initiative by sharing information and experiences, we have assembled a document archive of correspondence from different regions containing letters and emails.
3. It's clear from correspondence that Porsche AG is coordinating matters centrally albeit some variances according to region.
4. The Compensation Matrix is based on real offers of compensation that Porche's regional distributors have already made in their respective regions. It has been drafted following days of consultation with members who are genuine GT3 stakeholders in a private forum and reflects the feedback offered. Porsche has not only failed to consult with its customers but, having read feedback on forums across the world filled with complaints, has failed to take any action to address those complaints.
5. We accept that the car is priced differently according to region however, following consultation, we agreed to create a simplified matrix rather than an unnecessarily complicated one. Again, this is with the Group's agreement following lengthy discussion and consultation. Bear in mind that the car is cheaper in UAE than the US but the customers in UAE are being offered twice as much than their American counterparts. That said, the car is approaching $400k in China and some members there are not so much concerned about compensation but whether they will have to pay the full price for the car when it's eventually delivered or the recently reduced price by some $50k. This is yet another example of Porsche not communicating with its customers but dictating to them.
6. The numbers in the matrix are based on real numbers. In the US, customers who have paid $170k for the car are receiving the same $2k per month as customers who have a delayed order and placed a deposit of $5k. Taking the $2k as the base compensation for someone who has acted in reliance of receiving the car within a specific time period, we feel that is a generous offer, however that means the figure being offered to customers who have taken delivery are being under compensated. Customers who have paid and taken delivery of the car in Germany are being offered €175 Euros per day which is the figure we have taken for that category of customers worldwide because that is what Porsche is offering its home market. It was Porsche itself which set these parameters.
We are all Porsche enthusiasts and not looking for a confrontation but it's about time Porsche addressed everyone's complaints. We have undertaken exactly what Porsche should have done in the first place; we have consulted with and listened to affected GT3 customers and written to Porsche AG/VW AG accordingly following agreement with the 100+ strong Group regarding the correspondence and compensation. To the contrary, Porsche has chosen not to communicate with or consult its customers but has chosen to dictate to them.
The cost of the car has nothing to do with this matter. It's purely a consumer issue however some seem to take the view that customers' complaints would be more valid if the car was not as expensive. At the end of the day, we'd be over the moon to see the cars back on the road asap and we're all very sure that Porsche's engineering department is working on this around the clock. Porsche builds great cars but unfortunately its customer support does not measure up to that same standard.
Kind Regards
Sierra Mike & Macca
04-23-2014, 08:19 PM
#4345
Instructor
I have to say thank you to everyone for your support and appreciation. Nobody can question we are Porsche enthusiasts through and through and wish nothing but the best for the brand but it's management of this issue is completely wrong. I don't know how high up it has to go for someone in Porsche AG management to accept that and change the approach. I hope the regional distributors like PCNA and PCGB have the strength to tell them that they need to change course with how this is being handled.
It has been my sincere privilege to witness community spirited and like minded individuals come together and support each other as car enthusiasts who care about what's right. We have members who have selflessly revealed their compensation packages at the risk of losing that package because they think it's right. We've had offers of marketing, secretarial and administrative support. We've also been offered the services of lawyers in the UK as well as attorneys in the US free of charge. We're not looking for legal remedies but for Porsche to act in good faith. Each day more customers ask to join the Group which only grows because they've had enough of Porsche's consistent failure to meet its customers' expectations.
I have spoken with Macca more than I have my own wife in the last week who fortunately has been very understanding. It's a pleasure working together despite the fact I haven't been to bed before 6am one single night this last week! I'm not into mutual back patting but I've learnt a lot from Macca as well. We're incredibly fortunate that our skill sets and experience have complemented each other's to bring us this far but, it was not remotely possible without everyone who has joined the group as well as others who have not. This is what community is about!
I'm very proud to be a part of this and appreciate everyone's support. I can't wait till it's resolved and look forward to getting together so that we can share tales over a few beers! That's actually the reason we're doing this ... any excuse for a party! Fingers crossed it works out!
It has been my sincere privilege to witness community spirited and like minded individuals come together and support each other as car enthusiasts who care about what's right. We have members who have selflessly revealed their compensation packages at the risk of losing that package because they think it's right. We've had offers of marketing, secretarial and administrative support. We've also been offered the services of lawyers in the UK as well as attorneys in the US free of charge. We're not looking for legal remedies but for Porsche to act in good faith. Each day more customers ask to join the Group which only grows because they've had enough of Porsche's consistent failure to meet its customers' expectations.
I have spoken with Macca more than I have my own wife in the last week who fortunately has been very understanding. It's a pleasure working together despite the fact I haven't been to bed before 6am one single night this last week! I'm not into mutual back patting but I've learnt a lot from Macca as well. We're incredibly fortunate that our skill sets and experience have complemented each other's to bring us this far but, it was not remotely possible without everyone who has joined the group as well as others who have not. This is what community is about!
I'm very proud to be a part of this and appreciate everyone's support. I can't wait till it's resolved and look forward to getting together so that we can share tales over a few beers! That's actually the reason we're doing this ... any excuse for a party! Fingers crossed it works out!
04-23-2014, 09:56 PM
#4346
Burning Brakes
04-23-2014, 11:12 PM
#4347
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas nv
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Excellent work and GT3 camaraderie building experience. Thx SM, Macca and all who added moral support to this effort - Hopefully someday we can have a GT3 Action Group Tent at a F1 race, somewhere around the world / someday!
04-24-2014, 02:29 AM
#4350
5. We accept that the car is priced differently according to region however, following consultation, we agreed to create a simplified matrix rather than an unnecessarily complicated one. Again, this is with the Group's agreement following lengthy discussion and consultation. Bear in mind that the car is cheaper in UAE than the US but the customers in UAE are being offered twice as much than their American counterparts.
Just a tiny remark on the above to have the facts 100% correct next time around: the cars in the UAE aren't cheaper, our base price is an equivalent 133k USD. I think that makes it pretty much identical.
Also, when we were promised the 12k USD on 2 April, the Brand Manager told us the car should be back in "1 to 2 months", which I translated into end of May latest and recorded in an email back to her. When I quizzed her again on this on Tuesday, she now mentioned "end of June latest" with the (BS!) excuse that when she referred to "1 to 2 months" earlier, she started counting in May. And forgot the remaining 28 days in April... ridiculous!
So, it seems that our compensation is 12k for 4 months, hence 3k per month. Still better than the USA though.
Regardless, this initiative has been great. Now let's see if and how Porsche responds...