Compensation
03-19-2014, 09:19 AM
#31
Race Director
There is a bit of "fishing" here from Porsche. Its their 1st attempt and most likely not their last. the Warranty extension is a given. A loaner car is also a given. The cash component is not a given. Here, I think P will take a case by case approach but I highly doubt checks will be cut. It's more likely a credit towards something-be it Porsche gear (total joke IMO) or credit towards future car purchases.
I also think those who paid above MSRP are screwed.
I also think those who paid above MSRP are screwed.
03-19-2014, 09:28 AM
#32
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^ Agreed, since the above MSRP delta is dealer specific and doesn't concern Porsche.
Would the warranty extension cover the people who paid deposits and haven't received their cars on time? I certainly hope so.
Would the warranty extension cover the people who paid deposits and haven't received their cars on time? I certainly hope so.
03-19-2014, 09:51 AM
#33
^^^^ 100% agree. If all say "no" then they may listen.
I think we agree. In simple terms:
1). Extended Warranty (2 years minimum)
2). Cash compensation (or by way of credit towards another model or accessories if wanted)
3). Protection of residuals 2-3 years.
Or full refund plus cover for out of pocket costs.
Feel free to develop more ideas...
I think we agree. In simple terms:
1). Extended Warranty (2 years minimum)
2). Cash compensation (or by way of credit towards another model or accessories if wanted)
3). Protection of residuals 2-3 years.
Or full refund plus cover for out of pocket costs.
Feel free to develop more ideas...
Would be my third new car buying experience with Porsche. Two cars ordered in 12 month period. My dealer is three states away there is not even a Porsche dealer in my state. Men if you knew, and most of you do, the time and effort and hopes I've invested in this car deal. After yesterday's call my daydream of blasting through the country side in my new Gt3 now seems unlikely this summer.........Ughhh!!!!!
The sad part is I have deposits on other gt3's already. I don't know what to do, but at least I've perfected the art of waiting
Oh and my wife says we should all get free tee shirts....
.....diminished
03-19-2014, 10:00 AM
#34
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Please let me explain at first, I am not a wolf hungry for PAG’s blood after they fell down.
I was a Porsche owner since 20 years ago, this GT3 is my 7th 911, sometimes they let me down,
but they never let me feel want to live in days without a 911.
They are so concentrated on creating good and right thing, although it’s on a such traditional and unique platform,
it is so stupid to develop a whole new NA engine just to satisfy a 5,000 clients(GT3+RS)market,
but Porsche did it and that’s why I love it.
But this time, it is too long, unclear and despotically.
PAG, I want to know the truth and a fair, clear and honest final solution to every 2014 GT3 owner in the world.
The truth:
1. What is the reason caused 4 months delay in 2013 production?
2. Does it interrelate the 2 fires and the engine replacing?
Macca, Chris. Here is my suggestion for you guys reference:
To the 785 current GT3 owners/buyers(they can choose from below 3 figure solutions:
1. Engine replacing: (PAG should explain the spec of the new engine first and guarantee it will be same or above than claim spec)
1-1 A loaner vehicle(must be Porsche current models) or a $200/day transport fee until fixed and returned.
1-2 Extended Warranty (2 years).
1-3 30% discount from MSRP cash refund compensation or a 3 years protection of residuals.
(buying back prices guarantee, first year 80%, second year 70%, third year 60% to the dealt price)
2. Reorder a 2015 model: (and to cancel the 2014 one)
2-1 A loaner vehicle(must be Porsche current models) or a $200/day transport fee until the 2015 GT3 delivered.
2-2 Same price as 2014 model.(2015 model MSRP will increase)
2-3 $20K free option to reorder vehicle.
3. Cancel the 2014 and no reorder:
3-1 Refund all money.
3-2 Cash compensation (amount=depositx2)
To the other GT3 buyers (paid deposit, contracted delivery is later than Feb.11, 2014)
Cash refund compensation or free option to which vehicles engine has been replaced during production.(Porsche must be honest on it)
The other all new build vehicles with resolved new engines, make them faster and deliver them by schedule.
Again, we should try to make OUR requirement to PAG.
Thanks.
I was a Porsche owner since 20 years ago, this GT3 is my 7th 911, sometimes they let me down,
but they never let me feel want to live in days without a 911.
They are so concentrated on creating good and right thing, although it’s on a such traditional and unique platform,
it is so stupid to develop a whole new NA engine just to satisfy a 5,000 clients(GT3+RS)market,
but Porsche did it and that’s why I love it.
But this time, it is too long, unclear and despotically.
PAG, I want to know the truth and a fair, clear and honest final solution to every 2014 GT3 owner in the world.
The truth:
1. What is the reason caused 4 months delay in 2013 production?
2. Does it interrelate the 2 fires and the engine replacing?
Macca, Chris. Here is my suggestion for you guys reference:
To the 785 current GT3 owners/buyers(they can choose from below 3 figure solutions:
1. Engine replacing: (PAG should explain the spec of the new engine first and guarantee it will be same or above than claim spec)
1-1 A loaner vehicle(must be Porsche current models) or a $200/day transport fee until fixed and returned.
1-2 Extended Warranty (2 years).
1-3 30% discount from MSRP cash refund compensation or a 3 years protection of residuals.
(buying back prices guarantee, first year 80%, second year 70%, third year 60% to the dealt price)
2. Reorder a 2015 model: (and to cancel the 2014 one)
2-1 A loaner vehicle(must be Porsche current models) or a $200/day transport fee until the 2015 GT3 delivered.
2-2 Same price as 2014 model.(2015 model MSRP will increase)
2-3 $20K free option to reorder vehicle.
3. Cancel the 2014 and no reorder:
3-1 Refund all money.
3-2 Cash compensation (amount=depositx2)
To the other GT3 buyers (paid deposit, contracted delivery is later than Feb.11, 2014)
Cash refund compensation or free option to which vehicles engine has been replaced during production.(Porsche must be honest on it)
The other all new build vehicles with resolved new engines, make them faster and deliver them by schedule.
Again, we should try to make OUR requirement to PAG.
Thanks.
03-19-2014, 10:14 AM
#36
Nordschleife Master
This would be an interesting situation for the dealers since that type of practice is frowned upon by Porsche. Would love to see those dealers hung out to dry.
03-19-2014, 10:15 AM
#37
Banned
I received a live call from Porsche yesterday w/ nothing new to add other than all the info all of your collective intel has already provided. (I haven't spent this much late night, online time in YEARS
)
I'm unfortunately one of the ones that took delivery in December in Cleveland and had it shipped directly to Sebring for PBOC Winterfest. There, the car broke down with Cam Sensor issues. Drove it to Suncoast in Sarasota in limp mode, had it fixed. Broke down again with Thermostat issues. Had it fixed. Flew back down for PCA 48 Hr at Sebring and ran ONCE in three days due to weather.
Had the car shipped from Sebring to Forgeline to have 19" wheels cut, race seats and harness installed, only to have it sitting indefinitely waiting for "heart transplant."
It is my hope Porsche will do the right thing for 785+ customers. It's not like Toyota's recall or what GM is going through now? However, the minimal amount of times I've driven this car has me absolutely screwed. It's the BEST car I've ever driven. It handles like no other. It's torque curve and sweetspot is indescribable. It is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo planted, it makes me think I'm a better driver than I really am.
The sound beats F1 AND, w/out a helmet you can actually listen to the radio and not have your teeth rattle around as you drive it on the street.
I just came back from VIR w/ a new Cayman S. Carbotech pads and Hoosiers. My times reflected I ran fairly close to what its physical capacity ought to be, but I felt no more tingle in my boots than driving at speed on the road w/ my GT3 delivering her back for pickup from Sebring to get it home.
Once this issue gets fixed. The GT3 will get the time and attention by what it does on track and all these posts will be a long distant memory.... imo, humbly saying.
)I'm unfortunately one of the ones that took delivery in December in Cleveland and had it shipped directly to Sebring for PBOC Winterfest. There, the car broke down with Cam Sensor issues. Drove it to Suncoast in Sarasota in limp mode, had it fixed. Broke down again with Thermostat issues. Had it fixed. Flew back down for PCA 48 Hr at Sebring and ran ONCE in three days due to weather.
Had the car shipped from Sebring to Forgeline to have 19" wheels cut, race seats and harness installed, only to have it sitting indefinitely waiting for "heart transplant."
It is my hope Porsche will do the right thing for 785+ customers. It's not like Toyota's recall or what GM is going through now? However, the minimal amount of times I've driven this car has me absolutely screwed. It's the BEST car I've ever driven. It handles like no other. It's torque curve and sweetspot is indescribable. It is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo planted, it makes me think I'm a better driver than I really am.
The sound beats F1 AND, w/out a helmet you can actually listen to the radio and not have your teeth rattle around as you drive it on the street.
I just came back from VIR w/ a new Cayman S. Carbotech pads and Hoosiers. My times reflected I ran fairly close to what its physical capacity ought to be, but I felt no more tingle in my boots than driving at speed on the road w/ my GT3 delivering her back for pickup from Sebring to get it home.
Once this issue gets fixed. The GT3 will get the time and attention by what it does on track and all these posts will be a long distant memory.... imo, humbly saying.
If they've done the fix right (a big IF), then they will have nothing to worry about. If they haven't, then things get really messy.
03-19-2014, 10:28 AM
#38
Latest news from Porsche:
Porsche to replace GT3 engines due to fire risk - Mar. 18, 2014
Porsche to replace GT3 engines due to fire risk
By Peter Valdes-Dapena @peterdrives March 18, 2014: 5:58 PM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
Porsche will replace the engines in 785 high-performance sports cars because of a risk that the current engines could catch fire. The move was made in response to two engine fires in Porsche 911 GT3s.
The GT3 is a track-oriented two-seat version of the 911 sports car. Prices for the car start at $130,000. It can go from zero to 60 miles per hour in just 3.3 seconds, with a top speed of 195 miles per hour.
The decision to replace the engines was made after Porsche engineers investigated two engine fires that occurred in Europe. Neither fire caused an accident or any injuries. Porsche had already warned owners last month to stop driving the cars and to have them picked up and taken to a Porsche dealer.
Engineers discovered that the fires were caused by a loose rod inside the engine. The loose rod caused damage that then allowed lubricating oil to leak out and ignite.
The 785 cars that will have their engines changed include 408 in the United States. The move doesn't involve any other Porsche models beyond the 911 GT3. Porsche is part of the Volkswagen Group
Porsche to replace GT3 engines due to fire risk - Mar. 18, 2014
Porsche to replace GT3 engines due to fire risk
By Peter Valdes-Dapena @peterdrives March 18, 2014: 5:58 PM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
Porsche will replace the engines in 785 high-performance sports cars because of a risk that the current engines could catch fire. The move was made in response to two engine fires in Porsche 911 GT3s.
The GT3 is a track-oriented two-seat version of the 911 sports car. Prices for the car start at $130,000. It can go from zero to 60 miles per hour in just 3.3 seconds, with a top speed of 195 miles per hour.
The decision to replace the engines was made after Porsche engineers investigated two engine fires that occurred in Europe. Neither fire caused an accident or any injuries. Porsche had already warned owners last month to stop driving the cars and to have them picked up and taken to a Porsche dealer.
Engineers discovered that the fires were caused by a loose rod inside the engine. The loose rod caused damage that then allowed lubricating oil to leak out and ignite.
The 785 cars that will have their engines changed include 408 in the United States. The move doesn't involve any other Porsche models beyond the 911 GT3. Porsche is part of the Volkswagen Group
03-19-2014, 10:29 AM
#39
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I thought it was a 3 year warranty, but a 7 year free scheduled maintenance plan (at 12,500 mile intervals) for Ferraris starting with MY2012?
Regardless--yes, I would want an extended warranty to 6 years / 100k, covering track use, and preferably ms intense included for at least the original 4 year / 50k time frame.
Regardless--yes, I would want an extended warranty to 6 years / 100k, covering track use, and preferably ms intense included for at least the original 4 year / 50k time frame.
03-19-2014, 10:42 AM
#40
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Prorate the payments that you paid per the time parked, subtract from total before taxes and other subsequents. Then refund the entire amount! Then add on top of that a four year PCNA extended warranty claimable at any Porsche dealership or certified shop.
What litigation options are there. Can you guys class action in US or does the engine replacement take care of that and void it?
What litigation options are there. Can you guys class action in US or does the engine replacement take care of that and void it?
03-19-2014, 10:54 AM
#41
Nordschleife Master
loaner car of your choice> I had a turbo Pano while my P4S motor was being replaced. $4500 will go fast: $600 suitcase worth $200... How =about 4 year 48,000 no charge maintenance : brakes & rotors.....
Those that know me will know I wouldnt ask this question unless there was more on my mind.
If you had received your GT3 some time ago and are now unable to drive it until a replacement engine is shipped and installed (assume 2 months minimum, more likely three months from today), would you accept either of these two options as compensation for your time, inconvenience, opportunity cost (of funds or interest on finance whatever is applicable) and insurance and other holding costs?
1. Extension of warranty – (number of years to be advised - assume 2)
or
2. Porsche Driver Selection items up to the value of $4500 USD retail.
I ask because I suspect this is what you will be offered and I curious if those in the USA (where there is most market clout) would accept this?
Call is a "hypothetical" question for now...
If you had received your GT3 some time ago and are now unable to drive it until a replacement engine is shipped and installed (assume 2 months minimum, more likely three months from today), would you accept either of these two options as compensation for your time, inconvenience, opportunity cost (of funds or interest on finance whatever is applicable) and insurance and other holding costs?
1. Extension of warranty – (number of years to be advised - assume 2)
or
2. Porsche Driver Selection items up to the value of $4500 USD retail.
I ask because I suspect this is what you will be offered and I curious if those in the USA (where there is most market clout) would accept this?
Call is a "hypothetical" question for now...
03-19-2014, 10:57 AM
#42
Drifting
I received a live call from Porsche yesterday w/ nothing new to add other than all the info all of your collective intel has already provided. (I haven't spent this much late night, online time in YEARS)
I'm unfortunately one of the ones that took delivery in December in Cleveland and had it shipped directly to Sebring for PBOC Winterfest. There, the car broke down with Cam Sensor issues. Drove it to Suncoast in Sarasota in limp mode, had it fixed. Broke down again with Thermostat issues. Had it fixed. Flew back down for PCA 48 Hr at Sebring and ran ONCE in three days due to weather.
Had the car shipped from Sebring to Forgeline to have 19" wheels cut, race seats and harness installed, only to have it sitting indefinitely waiting for "heart transplant."
It is my hope Porsche will do the right thing for 785+ customers. It's not like Toyota's recall or what GM is going through now? However, the minimal amount of times I've driven this car has me absolutely screwed. It's the BEST car I've ever driven. It handles like no other. It's torque curve and sweetspot is indescribable. It is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo planted, it makes me think I'm a better driver than I really am.
The sound beats F1 AND, w/out a helmet you can actually listen to the radio and not have your teeth rattle around as you drive it on the street.
I just came back from VIR w/ a new Cayman S. Carbotech pads and Hoosiers. My times reflected I ran fairly close to what its physical capacity ought to be, but I felt no more tingle in my boots than driving at speed on the road w/ my GT3 delivering her back for pickup from Sebring to get it home.
Once this issue gets fixed. The GT3 will get the time and attention by what it does on track and all these posts will be a long distant memory.... imo, humbly saying.
)I'm unfortunately one of the ones that took delivery in December in Cleveland and had it shipped directly to Sebring for PBOC Winterfest. There, the car broke down with Cam Sensor issues. Drove it to Suncoast in Sarasota in limp mode, had it fixed. Broke down again with Thermostat issues. Had it fixed. Flew back down for PCA 48 Hr at Sebring and ran ONCE in three days due to weather.
Had the car shipped from Sebring to Forgeline to have 19" wheels cut, race seats and harness installed, only to have it sitting indefinitely waiting for "heart transplant."
It is my hope Porsche will do the right thing for 785+ customers. It's not like Toyota's recall or what GM is going through now? However, the minimal amount of times I've driven this car has me absolutely screwed. It's the BEST car I've ever driven. It handles like no other. It's torque curve and sweetspot is indescribable. It is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo planted, it makes me think I'm a better driver than I really am.
The sound beats F1 AND, w/out a helmet you can actually listen to the radio and not have your teeth rattle around as you drive it on the street.
I just came back from VIR w/ a new Cayman S. Carbotech pads and Hoosiers. My times reflected I ran fairly close to what its physical capacity ought to be, but I felt no more tingle in my boots than driving at speed on the road w/ my GT3 delivering her back for pickup from Sebring to get it home.
Once this issue gets fixed. The GT3 will get the time and attention by what it does on track and all these posts will be a long distant memory.... imo, humbly saying.
There is a misnomer on this board that the GT3 is purely a street car. That was NOT the GT3 lineage that Porsche created back in 1999 with the advent of the 996.1. The line was a car bred for street and track, sharing many Cup car parts. And to that end, many have driven these cars HARD on the track and the car has been highly reliable - especially the engine.
For me, the ultimate questions is whether or not the 991 GT3 is a GT3 in lineage, or more a GTS. No doubt it is an awesome street car, and stunning to look at. Time will tell…
-B
03-19-2014, 11:00 AM
#43
Nordschleife Master
if someone paid over MSRP that is just part of the deal. PCNA has nothing to do with that as the stealer pocketed the $$. go to the dealer of that.
03-19-2014, 11:15 AM
#45