Autoweek/Andy Pilgrim 991 GT3 vs Z/28 at Barber Motorsport Park
03-26-2014, 12:49 AM
#61
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Non CC doesn't make **** worth of difference in terms of a lap time here. Stop perpetuating the myth. Especially around a short course like this. Don't you think if it did, Porsche would try to advertise it as a lap time/performance advantage like they do with PDK?
CC brakes DO NOT stop better.
They are lighter (sort of, the larger rotor and caliper size likely negates much of the weight advantage)
They are heat/fade resistant.
They are super expensive to replace and will fall apart with track use.
CC brakes DO NOT stop better.
They are lighter (sort of, the larger rotor and caliper size likely negates much of the weight advantage)
They are heat/fade resistant.
They are super expensive to replace and will fall apart with track use.
due to the weight reduction alone, they should mean an advantage, even if only a small one.
and if im not mistaken, this was the only review of the gt3 where it was presented in a negative(inferior) light, and also the only one where their copy DIDNT have cc brakes. ? ? ?
03-26-2014, 01:46 AM
#62
Nordschleife Master
possibly not, but they certainly could hurt lap performance.
due to the weight reduction alone, they should mean an advantage, even if only a small one.
and if im not mistaken, this was the only review of the gt3 where it was presented in a negative(inferior) light, and also the only one where their copy DIDNT have cc brakes. ? ? ?
due to the weight reduction alone, they should mean an advantage, even if only a small one.
and if im not mistaken, this was the only review of the gt3 where it was presented in a negative(inferior) light, and also the only one where their copy DIDNT have cc brakes. ? ? ?
03-26-2014, 02:09 AM
#63
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possibly not, but they certainly couldn't hurt lap performance.
due to the weight reduction alone, they should mean an advantage, even if only a small one.
and if im not mistaken, this was the only review of the gt3 where it was presented in a negative(inferior) light, and also the only one where their copy DIDNT have cc brakes. ? ? ?
due to the weight reduction alone, they should mean an advantage, even if only a small one.
and if im not mistaken, this was the only review of the gt3 where it was presented in a negative(inferior) light, and also the only one where their copy DIDNT have cc brakes. ? ? ?
03-26-2014, 02:12 AM
#64
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03-26-2014, 04:24 AM
#65
03-26-2014, 07:43 AM
#66
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CC brakes DO NOT stop better. You cant run more aggressive pad selections for starters, though of course absolute stopping power is tire adhesion limited so thats the weakest link in any system anyways.
They are lighter (sort of, the larger rotor and caliper size likely negates much of the weight advantage) and two piece iron rotors claw back weight
They are heat/fade resistant.....until 750 deg C at which point the carbon in the brake rotors begins to oxidise. I can run that temp on my iron rotors
They are super expensive to replace and will fall apart with track use. or quite literally float away (see oxidisation)
03-26-2014, 07:49 AM
#67
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PCCB = Posing, Cruising, Cleaning and Boasting
03-26-2014, 09:34 AM
#68
Drifting
Thread Starter
"and the GT3 (supposedly) got stuck on a boat, but Nissan was happy to supply us with a 2014 GT-R Track Edition. After some heated phone calls and emails, Porsche finally coughed up a brand-new 2014 911 Turbo S."
"But it's not just a name-brand collection of parts, and the Z/28 is no tuner. It stands as one of absolutely the best track-focused cars in the world. A Camaro engineer ran around the Nürburgring Nordschleife (where the Z/28 was developed) in 7:37.47 in the rain. In dry conditions? "About neck and neck with the GT3," as Oppenheiser tells it. That's a 7:25 lap."
"Until we can settle things further, allow me to leave you with what GM second-in-command and head of product development Mark Reuss wrote when informed that the Z/28 beat the other cars: "Booya."
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
"But it's not just a name-brand collection of parts, and the Z/28 is no tuner. It stands as one of absolutely the best track-focused cars in the world. A Camaro engineer ran around the Nürburgring Nordschleife (where the Z/28 was developed) in 7:37.47 in the rain. In dry conditions? "About neck and neck with the GT3," as Oppenheiser tells it. That's a 7:25 lap."
"Until we can settle things further, allow me to leave you with what GM second-in-command and head of product development Mark Reuss wrote when informed that the Z/28 beat the other cars: "Booya."
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
03-26-2014, 10:20 AM
#72
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks for posting this article. My thinking is not how much faster the GT3 would have been on equal rubber but how much slower the Z28 would be on anything less than a Trofeo R due to the sheer mass of the vehicle. While I appreciate what Chevy is trying to do, their car is just too heavy IMO to use anything less than a premiere tire or for that matter be consistently reliable for an entire weekend when it is warm, humid or worse HOT. Those were optimal conditions for some quick laps in this test. Put the temp. @ 90F+ and go for an entire weekend with four 30 minute typical DE sessions and lets see how the car's brakes, tires & super charger are performing. Should the owner properly set the car up with even the most basic of safety features akin to a Club Sport kit (please tell me why Chevy did not have the fore thought to offer that as an option?), this car will be tipping the scales at well over 4,000#+ with driver. The delta in price they speak of at MSRP will be quickly reduced to even or less with the GT3 when one factors in all the expendables (think PCCB's, not rubber) and significantly larger % amounts of depreciation.
I'll let you do your own homework to answer your question: "please tell me why Chevy did not have the fore thought to offer that as an option?". You'll extend the answer (fair play) to explain why Porsche does not offer the Clubsport option in the US won't you?
30-40F temps are optimal conditions for tire performance?
You mention safety features, what is a 911 bodied car's NHTSA crash rating? Go ahead, take your time, find it. Actually you won't find it. In fact, you won't find anything for a 991 GT3 or for that matter any Porsche crash ratings. Curious people wonder why? Go ahead, look up 2014 Camaro crash ratings, you'll find it. Talk to me about "basic safety features"?
How many track days did I get when tracking Trofeo's on a GT3? Or a Boxster Spyder? The answers are there for those who seek facts. Will the Z/28 bevel it's brake pads like the 991 GT3 does when tracked necessitating brake maintenance after only 2 track days? Will oversized Ferrari/Corvette style ceramic rotors last longer than the (now properly sized) 991 GT3 rotors? Will a 1 of 500, 2014, car depreciate? Or appreciate?
All fair, objective, non-emotional questions that that thoughtful people might consider.
As a car-guy, not a Porsche guy or a Chevy guy, I think about these things.
03-26-2014, 11:28 AM
#73
Banned
03-26-2014, 11:44 AM
#74
Banned
My guess: plenty will be available for $45k three years from now. Btw, the article says they plan to make 3000 of them. If they still sell like hot cookies (especially after a $85k Z06 comes out), I'm sure GM will make more.
I fail to see the market GM is targeting with this car. Your typical Camaro muscle car fan will go for the cheaper and more powerful ZL1. Your typical track rat will get scared by the 500lbs extra weight and go for the Vette.
I fail to see the market GM is targeting with this car. Your typical Camaro muscle car fan will go for the cheaper and more powerful ZL1. Your typical track rat will get scared by the 500lbs extra weight and go for the Vette.
