SamFromTX

Yes.

Nick

Tim, sadly under the CA Lemon Law (many states have a similar law) once the Lemon Law is raised that forces the buyer into arbitration regardless if you signed an arbitration agreement. The manufacturer has a right to have the case heard in arbitration.

FWIW, Nick's case is made worse for him because the provisions in the Lemon law allow a manufacturer in a buy back to reduce the purchase price taking into account mileage and condition of the vehicle.

Nick is asking for a full refund and Porsche does not have to give it to him based on the law and his car is almost a year old.

Mike in CA

I get the impression you're referring specifically to my post, Bluehinder, so I'll respond and break this down a little. If you re-read my comment, I never said that someone without skin in the game wasn't "qualified to give advice". What I said was that it was much easier to do so when you have no financial or emotional interest, IOW, you don't own the car. There are also any number of reasons why buy-back would be a less than ideal so at the very least it's no slam dunk and certainly open for debate. You yourself are still "not sure yet" as you've noted above. If it were completely cut and dried I suspect you'd have pulled the trigger by now.

Also, I didn't say there was nothing else to drive. I asked for an opinion on what WSH thought were reasonable alternatives to the 991 GT3 and thought we could discuss from there. As long as we've gotten this far, though, I'll just say that for my part, there's nothing at or below the price of the GT3 that interests me enough to spend significant money, and the cars that are comparable in performance or appeal cost a lot more. As for that old saying you quoted, if we were talking about a permanent situation it might be relevant, but my car won't be out of service forever. By the time I got my money back, shopped for, ordered, and bought something else, the GT3 could already be back on the road.

That doesn't mean I think Porsche have been completely fair or reasonable in this situation, and it will affect my dealings with them going forward. But to reference another old saying, I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Mike in CA

What I have been told by someone in a position to know is that while the first time the car is sold, say at auction, it will carry the lemon title, the second time it trades hands, say at another auction, the lemon designation will disappear and the title will effectively be "laundered". I'm no expert on this subject so if someone has better insight into this process please correct me. But if this is true, then 6 months down the road Porsche could come out smelling like a rose on repurchased cars.

Jimmy-D

Mike - But if Porsche NA buys the car back and then sells it back to the Dealer would that not qualify under what you mentioned above as losing that designation?

Mike in CA

Jimmy, I suppose that's possible. Like I said, I was given the specific example about sale at auction by someone who is in position to know how these things work but I have no expertise myself. Maybe someone else who does can clarify whether what I was told is true and whether the situation you describe would basically be the same thing.

Bluehinder

Mike, despite how it may appear, my post was not directed to you per se,

It's fair to say that no option is best for everybody, including buybacks. Everyone needs to decide based on their long term plans for the car, how they use it, and how important a few thousand bucks are.

Me, I don't keep any car for longer than a year or two, this one included. Given that, side stepping this debacle and moving on to a 2015 makes more sense. I see no reason to own the uncertainty surrounding the 2014 model year. There are plenty of fun cars to drive for the summer.

Mike in CA

It would have been ok if it was, Bluehinder. That's what we're here for.

Jimmy-D

Mike - Not debating you. I find this interesting what you conveyed and how Porsche could get around and issue a clean Title on a Buy back. I never really enjoyed car buying experience because there is always an angle. Even when you think you got a deal these guys are high fiving when you leave.

Zucc

Dealers have customers sign arbitration agreements to limit their liability from any actions brought by consumers. It keeps down the number of frivolous laws suits and protects them from class action suits. It also protects them from people who are poor negotiators that want to sue because their neighbor who got a better deal was of a different race, sex, national origin, etc. Of course if the dealer is actually engaging in illegal behavior, then arbitration agreement is useless at that point. The attorney general of the state can get involved if necessary. Basically, if you spill some dealership coffee on your pants maybe they will agree to have them cleaned for you but they are not going to let you take them to court to sue for a $1,000,000 for your pain and suffering. That's why dealers want you to sign an arbitration agreement. Car dealers almost always loose in a jury trial no matter how silly the plaintiffs case is.

SamFromTX

Even if true, most delaers now show Carfax reports, where lemon titile will be there at some point. Sure, they may elect to hide reports on such cars but since most said cars will be sold by Porsche dealers (would you buy a minimally used Porsche GT3 from Bob's car and truck?), I suspect that title would haunt the car forever. That said, everyone will know why the car got that title and I seriously doubt they will bargains. Definitely cheaper for delaers but not much for us suckers.

Mike in CA

I know Jimmy, we're good. I wish I knew if what I was told had any truth to it. Regardless, I have little doubt that your point about the high fives is correct.

allans

To all that have responded, Thank you. I will post here as my situation progresses. Allan

gt3craig

I have started the process to sell my car back and so far its been very smooth, My dealer said my car is going back to Germany not staying here. So I don't know if that is happening with every car they are buying back it is with mine. Also Porsche uses an outside agency to buy back the car not an internal one.

SamFromTX

Are they refunding taxes, registration, etc, as well?