Beware of premature failure of Porsche PCCB ceramic brakes
05-01-2014, 10:22 PM
#91
Pro
Discussions about the trade offs with PCCB's always seems to get spirited. If you track your car it can get expensive quickly, but what a crummy trade off to have to face. The positive properties of ceramic brakes are compelling on both track and street, but street driven cars face no such cost vs performance dilemma (well, except for that small matter of checking the box when the cars was originally ordred). I think it drives the track guys crazy that they have to forego brakes which seem so well suited to track use.
05-01-2014, 11:04 PM
#92
Discussions about the trade offs with PCCB's always seems to get spirited. If you track your car it can get expensive quickly, but what a crummy trade off to have to face. The positive properties of ceramic brakes are compelling on both track and street, but street driven cars face no such cost vs performance dilemma (well, except for that small matter of checking the box when the cars was originally ordred). I think it drives the track guys crazy that they have to forego brakes which seem so well suited to track use.
05-02-2014, 12:45 PM
#93
Three Wheelin'
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Just get gently used PCCB rotors off the forums here for pennies on the dollar. Problem solved. Street driven PCCB with virtually no use resell for around $6k a set. I bought a set off here for that, including pads. That's cheaper, on a per use basis, than steel rotors on the track.
05-02-2014, 10:13 PM
#94
Just as an FYI, in the latest 991TTS product book it states on page 63 under PCCB:
"PCCB enables shorter braking distances in even the toughest road and race conditions. Excellent fade resistance guarantees greater balance when slowing from track speeds. The key advantage of PCCB is the extremely low weight of the ceramic brake discs, which are approximately 50% lighter than standard discs of similar design and size. As well as enhancing performance and fuel economy, this represents a major reduction in unsprung weight and rotating masses, resulting in better road holding and increased comfort, particularly on uneven roads. As well as greater agility and handling".
Incidentally the size of he new PCCB disc are 410mm front and 390mm rear, somewhat larger than even the Laferrari's which are 398 and 380.
I also note the steel brakes on the 991tt are 380mm front and rear….somewhat smaller….and I will check the product book for 997TTS next week and come back on their disc size differences.
So, it (The 991TTS) sure stops god damned fast!! In fact I've never experienced brakes this good, period!
I also imagine the same situation also applies to the outgoing 997TTS where stopping distances are concerned vs the steel brake on that car. Just because no one has shown tests on the 997TTs PCCB vs steels stopping distances doesn't mean what Porsche themselves quote (here) isn't 100% legit…..until proven otherwise. But, again it ultimately comes down to a user pay exercise given the life expectancy (PCCB) being reported during track use appears to be no better than the steels.
"PCCB enables shorter braking distances in even the toughest road and race conditions. Excellent fade resistance guarantees greater balance when slowing from track speeds. The key advantage of PCCB is the extremely low weight of the ceramic brake discs, which are approximately 50% lighter than standard discs of similar design and size. As well as enhancing performance and fuel economy, this represents a major reduction in unsprung weight and rotating masses, resulting in better road holding and increased comfort, particularly on uneven roads. As well as greater agility and handling".
Incidentally the size of he new PCCB disc are 410mm front and 390mm rear, somewhat larger than even the Laferrari's which are 398 and 380.
I also note the steel brakes on the 991tt are 380mm front and rear….somewhat smaller….and I will check the product book for 997TTS next week and come back on their disc size differences.
So, it (The 991TTS) sure stops god damned fast!! In fact I've never experienced brakes this good, period!
I also imagine the same situation also applies to the outgoing 997TTS where stopping distances are concerned vs the steel brake on that car. Just because no one has shown tests on the 997TTs PCCB vs steels stopping distances doesn't mean what Porsche themselves quote (here) isn't 100% legit…..until proven otherwise. But, again it ultimately comes down to a user pay exercise given the life expectancy (PCCB) being reported during track use appears to be no better than the steels.
Last edited by speed21; 05-02-2014 at 10:33 PM.
05-02-2014, 11:16 PM
#95
Pro
There is a difference between measuring stopping distances for one controlled stop vs. repeated stops under severe real world conditions. In this case PCCB's should be superior given their heat dissipating properties, so Porsche's claim is valid. Lets face it, although expensive PCCB's are better, period. Plus they look so cool.......
05-02-2014, 11:58 PM
#96
^ agree. And as I said earlier if a driver can't tell the distinct gains in overall performance and stopping power then I don't know what is wrong with them. Maybe the $ signs are so blinding they have completely knocked out all of their senses? Anyway...
05-08-2014, 10:40 AM
#97
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I am new to the PCCB discussions and am looking at various 997tt some have PCCB and others don't. I have not track my cars in the past, that being said I would like the option to track them occasionally in the future. I am leaning against PCCB purely because I don't want to be hit with a $15k bill if I do track them.
I do have one question, what makes the PCCB fail or have a much shorter life at the tack, but when used only on the street they have tremendous longevity? On the surface, I would have thought long life for one would mean long life for both.
I do have one question, what makes the PCCB fail or have a much shorter life at the tack, but when used only on the street they have tremendous longevity? On the surface, I would have thought long life for one would mean long life for both.
05-09-2014, 12:48 AM
#98
Pro
I am new to the PCCB discussions and am looking at various 997tt some have PCCB and others don't. I have not track my cars in the past, that being said I would like the option to track them occasionally in the future. I am leaning against PCCB purely because I don't want to be hit with a $15k bill if I do track them.
I do have one question, what makes the PCCB fail or have a much shorter life at the tack, but when used only on the street they have tremendous longevity? On the surface, I would have thought long life for one would mean long life for both.
I do have one question, what makes the PCCB fail or have a much shorter life at the tack, but when used only on the street they have tremendous longevity? On the surface, I would have thought long life for one would mean long life for both.
05-09-2014, 01:04 AM
#99
Burning Brakes
I am new to the PCCB discussions and am looking at various 997tt some have PCCB and others don't. I have not track my cars in the past, that being said I would like the option to track them occasionally in the future. I am leaning against PCCB purely because I don't want to be hit with a $15k bill if I do track them.
I do have one question, what makes the PCCB fail or have a much shorter life at the tack, but when used only on the street they have tremendous longevity? On the surface, I would have thought long life for one would mean long life for both.
I do have one question, what makes the PCCB fail or have a much shorter life at the tack, but when used only on the street they have tremendous longevity? On the surface, I would have thought long life for one would mean long life for both.
My advice, don't be dissuaded from buying a car with PCCBs, you can box them up and replace them with relatively inexpensive steels if you decide to track. Cars equipped with them will always sell faster but not necessarily for more $$
They look cool, they make you feel accomplished knowing you have 4k at each corner, you can brag about unsprung weight and no brake dust all day
05-09-2014, 02:58 AM
#100
Rennlist Member
I use my TTS only on the streets and find PCCB perfects! Only problem is under heavy rain: in that condition you have to push the brakes twice to let them work well.
05-09-2014, 12:50 PM
#101
Trucker
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Vivid,
The issue that OP was describing was that the "nanny" on his TTS was engaging his brakes so much that it caused premature brake wear. And since the standard brake on the TTS is PCCB and the replacement cost for PCCB is high and thus this thread started...
And everyone has posted (& I agree) that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with PCCB for street or track. All things equal it will outlast cast iron. BUT: replacement costs are high...so heads-up for the guys that track their cars...
The issue that OP was describing was that the "nanny" on his TTS was engaging his brakes so much that it caused premature brake wear. And since the standard brake on the TTS is PCCB and the replacement cost for PCCB is high and thus this thread started...
And everyone has posted (& I agree) that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with PCCB for street or track. All things equal it will outlast cast iron. BUT: replacement costs are high...so heads-up for the guys that track their cars...
