Matchu865

I love how you guys are complaing about lack of steering feel. Going from my 88 Carrera (fun/track car) to my 08 Civic Si is about the worst when in comes to change in steering feel. Haven't driven a 991 but I can guarantee it is leaps and bounds better than the Civic (and it better be). But I guess driver involvement is the reason people buy 911's.

sapman

Great points.

speed21

Good points indeed! The complaints from the 997 camp are certainly getting old from repetition....bit like listening to a broken record really. Its as if the 991 guys are responsible for enjoying themselves without permission from the 997 camp. Strange how 997 posters have outnumbered 991 posters too and, I question how long this would fly if the numbers were swung the other way....and the 991 guys invaded the 997 forum to inform their opinions of the 997s misgivings

I'd also hazzard a guess many who are complaining of 991's so called numb steering haven't driven the car. My impression was the steering of the new car felt distinctly improved in areas that count, along with the rest of the car. Like all versions i've owned each iteration has proven to be better. Can't say id be going back from my 997 to my 996 to my 993....but each to his own.

Based on some of the comments here, anything past the very first 911 iteration can't really be called a 911 now can it..??

Alan Smithee

Flip side of that - I appreciate the new feedback from people like n2cars, MJones, and frayed, be it positive or negative - they are true enthusiasts with similar taste in vehicles, and I value their opinions.

nkhalidi

I think that's absolutely accurate, and that's why I spend far less time on forums now than I did ten years ago, and when I do, I only occasionally contribute.

That said, the 991 guys who are feeling hurt and ridiculed need to secure themselves in their decision to purchase a 991. We buy toys because we want to, not because we seek approval from faceless internet denizens with multi-thousand post counts.

speed21

I'm certainly not questioning whether the members you speak of are true enthusiasts. And on the subject of "true" enthusiasts there have been plenty of true enthusiasts that would vigorously contest the negative opinions that have been put up to date, and support a contrary argument. And how does one gauge a true enthusiast over and above the next enthusiast? An enthusiast is an enthusiast, or are you saying one enthusiast is more qualified than the next? And,if so what is the criteria for qualification of being a "true" enthusiast?

And fwiw I don't have any problem with enthusiasts "true" or "otherwise" passing a negative opinion, just that there does come a point in time where repetition sets in and monotony and angst takes over and I think we are at that stage on this topic. It's always the same old tired argument that comes up every time Porsche brings a new generation car to the table, and always predomiately from owners sitting in the outgoing model. It's like an obligatory period of adjustment that often winds up seeing the biggest wingers later being the biggest fans....and usually after they have bought one.

The reality is todays new 991 will become tomorrows classic 911 at one point, and to say the newer car is less involving signals success that Porsche has made the machine more competent. And that is generally a good thing. The competition isn't standing still so why should Porsche? Or do the "true" enthusiasts believe Porsche should have stopped at the 997.....or sorry, 993....after all that was air cooled.

Bill_C4S

Speed21 - welcome to (I assume) a fellow Aussie.

As ADias notes above, we at Rennlist are a community, a rather long standing one at that.

I have come here for nigh on a decade because I - for want of a far better description - furtively "love" the 911, and wish to see it continue ever upwards. Proving to all and sundry that the sine qua non of driving comes from having the engine at the "wrong" end'; a flat 6 possessed of a siren's song; handling dynamics that merge you into its core; and a visage that has been elegantly honed over almost 50 years.

In my time at Rennlist we've adjudged the benefits of evolving the 996.1 to its rather better looking successor, nodded sagely as 997.1 demonstrated that indeed a 993 and 996 could copulate and enhance the genetics....and were (largely) delighted when their second offspring further moved the game on.

So when the lads at Weissach sought to evolve the 997.2 by dipping into the Panamera's genetic pool...well you can probably understand we were a tad cautious.

Not so much because we're moldy old figs who thought the best 901 was a 356 but because....well we ain't exactly sure Porsche has done it right this time (and yes i've driven a 991S).

The jury is out, and in this community is endeavouring to discern whether this 991...does really meet our definition of a 911. Hence, this at times ribald debate.

Me thinks the 991 will be embraced, but I suspect it might take a GT version (rather as it took the 996.1 GT3 to convince the air coolers that water pumping was legit in a 911) before there is a warm embrace of this newest iteration.

Welcome again!

n2cars

I agree the 991 is fast, not Scuderia fast, but fast enough. I found the 991 comfortable, quiet, nice interior, and easy to drive. All positive features. I was hoping the car had a little more "attitude", a little more "edginess" to it. I wanted to feel butterflies in my stomach like you get on that first date or that 200 foot drop on a roller coaster ride. The 991 just didn't do it for me and other cars have. Porsche has built a nice car in the 991 it's just not for me. Maybe the GT3 will.

jakes dad

Like I said before regarding the 997 and the 991

997 is six more than 991... Nuf said... That must mean that it's 6% better...
I live in my own little world...

frayed

Exactly what I was thinking.

I typically buy my cars cash, and I would wait for my order rather than buy a car on the ground. The driving experience did not get me even remotely close to writing that check.

OTOH, when I first drove the 997S after 3 996's, I was like HELLL YEAH!


------------------------------------

Some of you 991 owners or prospective owners need to find a way to be secure in your purchase. My comments are simply my opinion based on my tastes/habits/experiences. The 991 is, as the many reviews state, objectively better in every way than its predecessor. But subjectively, is it appealing? That's for you to decide.

I'm not here to rain on anybody's parade, and I went into the test drive excited. I even told my wife and kids that after I figure out PDK v. manual I planned to order one this week. I *wanted* to love the car.

I'm probably more of a hard core BMW enthusiast, I've owned several and still have my first true love, the E36 M3. To me BMW lost its way with larger, heavier, turbocharged cars and left behind the visceral feel of the mid nineties metal and older. That's when I jumped over Porsche. I feel like Porsche has now done the same thing. . . but I'm holding out hope for upcoming GT cars.

zanwar

I was in a similar position a few weeks ago and the driving experience *did* make we want to write a check. However the dealership didn't want to take my check, so I bought a Maserati instead.

frayed

You happy with the Maser? They are beautiful rigs. A friend has one in this pewter-like gray and grey wheels, like yours. It's stunning.

Mbiondo

Hey, I don't hate the 991, nor the people who bought/drive them. So, how hot is your wife?

zizu

Wondering if a base 991 without any electonic options (PASM, PDCC, PDK etc...) would be better concerning the edginess, attitude we love about 911s... Anybody test drove one yet or any reviews in magazines? Really curious about that...

alexb76

Welcome to Rennlist!

Stick around... 991 just came out and you will only see reviews for weeks!

Car guys are by nature passionate, and Porsche enthusiasts are the most passionate about what they care about, and the 911 heritage and how a car should perform, handle, ride, feel!

991 unfortunately is a departure from some unique elements of 911 that has been there for many years, it is softer, a lot more electronics, electrical steering, much larger, different handling dynamics, A LOT HARDER to maintain for enthusiasts (oil, brakes, filter, etc), etc... it is in general a better car, but NOT a better 911, so you gotto excuse 911 lovers of being negative towards Porsche screwing with their dreamcar!