PDK woes (991 Specific)
06-07-2012, 04:12 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
PDK woes (991 Specific)
it's been about 5 weeks since i picked the car up, and about 4000 miles so far....
in the 997 days i went from owning a 6 speed cab (which i liked) and test driving the PDK i was instantly convinced it was better and upgraded to a PDK coupe (never looked back)
with the 991, I ordered PDK and subsequently test drove a PDK (test drive really isn't a good way to get the feel for a vehicle fully (pressure/salesman present) ) and liked it, having driven it now several miles, I can say without a doubt that the PDK on the 991 lacks soul and character like the 997.2 PDK had and I honestly wish I would have gone 7 speed manual.
Auto Mode (Normal): feels like driving a minivan, very bland and boring.
Auto Mode (Sport): more pickup, more character, nice down shifts on hard decel to proper gear (like the sound the symposer puts out, but outside car is still only engine noise) accel from standstill is very weak down low.
Manual Mode (Normal): throttle response is bland, accel from standstill still weak unless rolling in 1st, downshifts sound sexy
Manual Mode (Sport): throttle response is better but still bland, accel from stand still is still weak but rolling in 1st accel is stronger, downshifts are obviously sexier sounding..
Biggest Con: The vehicle "compensates" too much and "interupts" the driving experience, from standstill the power delivery is weak but engine wants to go (i feel the clutch is feathered too much and needs to be direct delivery of power) also when driving aggressively I feel a disconnect from the engine as if the trans is "feathering" something, or maybe the engine is pulling timing to retard the power output? I feel the car is further away from a manual transmission than in the past purely because of the software installed to "interupt" the driver...
does anyone else feel this when they are driving? I honestly feel Porsche needs to step up to the plate with a PDK update to address the problems or I'm not even sure I would/will want a PDK when the GT3 comes out (in the past I was nothing but excited to see a PDK trans in the GT3 which would make it "Turbo" fast but naturally aspirated.
-Riley
in the 997 days i went from owning a 6 speed cab (which i liked) and test driving the PDK i was instantly convinced it was better and upgraded to a PDK coupe (never looked back)
with the 991, I ordered PDK and subsequently test drove a PDK (test drive really isn't a good way to get the feel for a vehicle fully (pressure/salesman present) ) and liked it, having driven it now several miles, I can say without a doubt that the PDK on the 991 lacks soul and character like the 997.2 PDK had and I honestly wish I would have gone 7 speed manual.
Auto Mode (Normal): feels like driving a minivan, very bland and boring.
Auto Mode (Sport): more pickup, more character, nice down shifts on hard decel to proper gear (like the sound the symposer puts out, but outside car is still only engine noise) accel from standstill is very weak down low.
Manual Mode (Normal): throttle response is bland, accel from standstill still weak unless rolling in 1st, downshifts sound sexy
Manual Mode (Sport): throttle response is better but still bland, accel from stand still is still weak but rolling in 1st accel is stronger, downshifts are obviously sexier sounding..
Biggest Con: The vehicle "compensates" too much and "interupts" the driving experience, from standstill the power delivery is weak but engine wants to go (i feel the clutch is feathered too much and needs to be direct delivery of power) also when driving aggressively I feel a disconnect from the engine as if the trans is "feathering" something, or maybe the engine is pulling timing to retard the power output? I feel the car is further away from a manual transmission than in the past purely because of the software installed to "interupt" the driver...
does anyone else feel this when they are driving? I honestly feel Porsche needs to step up to the plate with a PDK update to address the problems or I'm not even sure I would/will want a PDK when the GT3 comes out (in the past I was nothing but excited to see a PDK trans in the GT3 which would make it "Turbo" fast but naturally aspirated.
-Riley
06-07-2012, 04:21 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I will say however that the 997.2 off the showroom did not feel as "involved" as it did once I had installed exhaust and suspension (made it feel more like a sportscar and less like a family sedan).. and that maybe/hopefully once I install suspension/exhaust on the 991 it will feel more alive.. but this doesnt take away from the "Driver removed" feeling i get from the 991... the chassis just lacks character that even the 997 had, the driver definitely does not feel connected with the car as they once were... speeds that were once exciting in a 997 are now "bland and calm" in the 991..
06-07-2012, 05:23 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
coming off 40k in a 997.2 C4S to my 4k in this 991 this is my story and i'm sticking to it:
997.2 S = unique, fun car at any speed on any road. 991 = regular "fill in the lux brand" car at all speeds < 70. to enjoy the 991 as a daily, better get ready to get some tickets.
997.2 S = unique, fun car at any speed on any road. 991 = regular "fill in the lux brand" car at all speeds < 70. to enjoy the 991 as a daily, better get ready to get some tickets.
06-07-2012, 05:32 PM
#4
coming off 40k in a 997.2 C4S to my 4k in this 991 this is my story and i'm sticking to it:
997.2 S = unique, fun car at any speed on any road. 991 = regular "fill in the lux brand" car at all speeds < 70. to enjoy the 991 as a daily, better get ready to get some tickets.
997.2 S = unique, fun car at any speed on any road. 991 = regular "fill in the lux brand" car at all speeds < 70. to enjoy the 991 as a daily, better get ready to get some tickets.
Also, had my first ticket in a million years a few weeks ago, 51mph in a 30mph zone.
06-07-2012, 05:50 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
coming off 40k in a 997.2 C4S to my 4k in this 991 this is my story and i'm sticking to it:
997.2 S = unique, fun car at any speed on any road. 991 = regular "fill in the lux brand" car at all speeds < 70. to enjoy the 991 as a daily, better get ready to get some tickets.
997.2 S = unique, fun car at any speed on any road. 991 = regular "fill in the lux brand" car at all speeds < 70. to enjoy the 991 as a daily, better get ready to get some tickets.
The car itself isn't that bad, it's just the transmission programming and the soft/plush ride... i can change the suspension dynamics but the trans needs an update for sure.... lets all say we have ****ty 2--->1 downshifts and they'll update us like 997.2 days and at the same time give it more ***** like the did with 997.2
06-07-2012, 05:51 PM
#7
Racer
I too wish I had the 7 sp manual. My reasoning is simply there's not as much driver's involvement with the PDK (even though I drive it in Manual Sport mode all the time), it's like manually shifting an auto trans (but a bit better with the Sport Chrono programming, downshifts, sound, etc.). The steering is uninspiring...not nearly as responsive and feels numb as well. Many areas in the 991 are upgraded/improved, but the driving experienced is "numbed down" as compared with my 997.
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06-07-2012, 06:09 PM
#8
Instructor
it's been about 5 weeks since i picked the car up, and about 4000 miles so far....
in the 997 days i went from owning a 6 speed cab (which i liked) and test driving the PDK i was instantly convinced it was better and upgraded to a PDK coupe (never looked back)
with the 991, I ordered PDK and subsequently test drove a PDK (test drive really isn't a good way to get the feel for a vehicle fully (pressure/salesman present) ) and liked it, having driven it now several miles, I can say without a doubt that the PDK on the 991 lacks soul and character like the 997.2 PDK had and I honestly wish I would have gone 7 speed manual.
Auto Mode (Normal): feels like driving a minivan, very bland and boring.
Auto Mode (Sport): more pickup, more character, nice down shifts on hard decel to proper gear (like the sound the symposer puts out, but outside car is still only engine noise) accel from standstill is very weak down low.
Manual Mode (Normal): throttle response is bland, accel from standstill still weak unless rolling in 1st, downshifts sound sexy
Manual Mode (Sport): throttle response is better but still bland, accel from stand still is still weak but rolling in 1st accel is stronger, downshifts are obviously sexier sounding..
Biggest Con: The vehicle "compensates" too much and "interupts" the driving experience, from standstill the power delivery is weak but engine wants to go (i feel the clutch is feathered too much and needs to be direct delivery of power) also when driving aggressively I feel a disconnect from the engine as if the trans is "feathering" something, or maybe the engine is pulling timing to retard the power output? I feel the car is further away from a manual transmission than in the past purely because of the software installed to "interupt" the driver...
does anyone else feel this when they are driving? I honestly feel Porsche needs to step up to the plate with a PDK update to address the problems or I'm not even sure I would/will want a PDK when the GT3 comes out (in the past I was nothing but excited to see a PDK trans in the GT3 which would make it "Turbo" fast but naturally aspirated.
-Riley
in the 997 days i went from owning a 6 speed cab (which i liked) and test driving the PDK i was instantly convinced it was better and upgraded to a PDK coupe (never looked back)
with the 991, I ordered PDK and subsequently test drove a PDK (test drive really isn't a good way to get the feel for a vehicle fully (pressure/salesman present) ) and liked it, having driven it now several miles, I can say without a doubt that the PDK on the 991 lacks soul and character like the 997.2 PDK had and I honestly wish I would have gone 7 speed manual.
Auto Mode (Normal): feels like driving a minivan, very bland and boring.
Auto Mode (Sport): more pickup, more character, nice down shifts on hard decel to proper gear (like the sound the symposer puts out, but outside car is still only engine noise) accel from standstill is very weak down low.
Manual Mode (Normal): throttle response is bland, accel from standstill still weak unless rolling in 1st, downshifts sound sexy
Manual Mode (Sport): throttle response is better but still bland, accel from stand still is still weak but rolling in 1st accel is stronger, downshifts are obviously sexier sounding..
Biggest Con: The vehicle "compensates" too much and "interupts" the driving experience, from standstill the power delivery is weak but engine wants to go (i feel the clutch is feathered too much and needs to be direct delivery of power) also when driving aggressively I feel a disconnect from the engine as if the trans is "feathering" something, or maybe the engine is pulling timing to retard the power output? I feel the car is further away from a manual transmission than in the past purely because of the software installed to "interupt" the driver...
does anyone else feel this when they are driving? I honestly feel Porsche needs to step up to the plate with a PDK update to address the problems or I'm not even sure I would/will want a PDK when the GT3 comes out (in the past I was nothing but excited to see a PDK trans in the GT3 which would make it "Turbo" fast but naturally aspirated.
-Riley
06-07-2012, 06:11 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I too wish I had the 7 sp manual. My reasoning is simply there's not as much driver's involvement with the PDK (even though I drive it in Manual Sport mode all the time), it's like manually shifting an auto trans (but a bit better with the Sport Chrono programming, downshifts, sound, etc.). The steering is uninspiring...not nearly as responsive and feels numb as well. Many areas in the 991 are upgraded/improved, but the driving experienced is "numbed down" as compared with my 997.
This is my 5th new P car in 3 years and thats what I am basing my opinion from, this will sound horrible but my Cayenne with sport mode+PASM off had more *****/grunt to it than the 991 does... which is why i feel it's a trans programming issue versus a vehicle problem (new cayenne has the improved/newly designed chassis as well)...
the car is still fun to drive, but it's not on the level of what I expect to get from a 4second 0-60mph vehicle...... I might slightly be missing my Lotus Exige feel but I'm not trying to make the car a Lotus, just trying to "wake it up' a little bit from a soccer mom/grocery getter..
06-07-2012, 06:16 PM
#10
Racer
That, Sir, sums it up! I was impatient after not being able to locate an MT in dealer inventory and learning that an order wouldn't be arriving until late October, I went ahead and got the PDK. We learn in time I guess - next one is going to be a MT for sure no matter how long it takes!!
06-07-2012, 06:51 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
That, Sir, sums it up! I was impatient after not being able to locate an MT in dealer inventory and learning that an order wouldn't be arriving until late October, I went ahead and got the PDK. We learn in time I guess - next one is going to be a MT for sure no matter how long it takes!!
06-07-2012, 07:07 PM
#12
Beg to differ- 997.2 PDK to 991 PDK- I find little difference in shift change I only drive in sport with suspension in sport. This car gets fast and connects with the road. If Im going fast from here to there this car does it- less drama ( read wheel spin or oversteer) than my previous car which i suspect is a factor of new tires wider track etc. Unfortunately Im most focused on the damm rattle.
06-07-2012, 07:27 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
I just changed my build from PDK to 7MT bcos of exactly what OP said. I think with manual shift and a high revving engine, 991 can be blast. If u the revs over 4000, the car feels really alive.
06-07-2012, 07:54 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Beg to differ- 997.2 PDK to 991 PDK- I find little difference in shift change I only drive in sport with suspension in sport. This car gets fast and connects with the road. If Im going fast from here to there this car does it- less drama ( read wheel spin or oversteer) than my previous car which i suspect is a factor of new tires wider track etc. Unfortunately Im most focused on the damm rattle.
the engine def has a diff powerband (needs to be revv'd)
06-07-2012, 10:07 PM
#15
Drifting
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The perspectives are interesting. If you are a first time 911 buyer, the 991 is going to be awesome. It sounds like many ( not all) of the long time owners miss the involvement and rough edges of the previous generations.
I'm on my first Porsche as well. I came out of a Dinnan 335, which I loved, but really wanted a 911TT. Went with the 996 for a variety of reasons. Mostly I loved its raw nature with just enough creature comforts to make it livable.
However, I admit that I was just a little concerned that the rawness would wear thin after a while. Fortunately, it became addictive. I hate driving just about anything else these days and have made it even rougher (x73) and faster (umw tune) than when I first got it.
I drove a friend's new M3 last weekend. Booooring!
The 991 is a technological marvel. It's just not as involving as it's ancestors on a daily basis. (yes I did spend half a day in the 991s so I have driven it. Great car.) That doesn't make it better or worse. Just different.
I'm on my first Porsche as well. I came out of a Dinnan 335, which I loved, but really wanted a 911TT. Went with the 996 for a variety of reasons. Mostly I loved its raw nature with just enough creature comforts to make it livable.
However, I admit that I was just a little concerned that the rawness would wear thin after a while. Fortunately, it became addictive. I hate driving just about anything else these days and have made it even rougher (x73) and faster (umw tune) than when I first got it.
I drove a friend's new M3 last weekend. Booooring!
The 991 is a technological marvel. It's just not as involving as it's ancestors on a daily basis. (yes I did spend half a day in the 991s so I have driven it. Great car.) That doesn't make it better or worse. Just different.