Saw my first C7 today
12-01-2013, 08:06 AM
#286
Race Car
She did. Its at the North Carolina Porsche by Design exhibit through January.
http://ncartmuseum.org/exhibition/po...seducing-speed
http://ncartmuseum.org/exhibition/po...seducing-speed
Last edited by chuckbdc; 02-13-2014 at 07:36 PM.
12-01-2013, 09:45 AM
#287
Three Wheelin'
Deleted by myself
12-01-2013, 11:07 AM
#288
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+1
And I'm in the camp that doesn't like the rear of the Corvette too.
I think it does nothing but harm to the general impression of Porsche owners if they don't acknowledge the performance virtues of the base Corvette as well as acknowledge what the differences are for the 2 to 2.5x price difference of a 991. It's a little oversimplified to dismiss it as more expensive in a single sentence.
The 911 is somewhat becoming like what some Aston Martin models were in the 2000's - very pretty to look at, very expensive, and as a sports car it is fast, but you can get nearly the same or even superior performance at a much lower price elsewhere. I always respected AM owners because the AM's were beautiful cars, the owners had big bucks to drop on them, and if I had so much disposable income that the performance/value sort of thing didn't matter then I would have bought one too. For the rest of us, identical (or nearly so) performance at half the price is worth rethinking things.
And I'm in the camp that doesn't like the rear of the Corvette too.
I think it does nothing but harm to the general impression of Porsche owners if they don't acknowledge the performance virtues of the base Corvette as well as acknowledge what the differences are for the 2 to 2.5x price difference of a 991. It's a little oversimplified to dismiss it as more expensive in a single sentence.
The 911 is somewhat becoming like what some Aston Martin models were in the 2000's - very pretty to look at, very expensive, and as a sports car it is fast, but you can get nearly the same or even superior performance at a much lower price elsewhere. I always respected AM owners because the AM's were beautiful cars, the owners had big bucks to drop on them, and if I had so much disposable income that the performance/value sort of thing didn't matter then I would have bought one too. For the rest of us, identical (or nearly so) performance at half the price is worth rethinking things.
12-01-2013, 02:00 PM
#289
Drifting
Interesting....I thought the quality of the leather in the C7 was on the cheap side and no where near the quality of the 991. Furthermore the quality of the materials, while a distinct improvment over the C6, was not in keeping with a car that cost +/- $70,000. Nevertheless, I would say the C7 is a huge step forward.
12-01-2013, 02:09 PM
#290
+1
And I'm in the camp that doesn't like the rear of the Corvette too.
I think it does nothing but harm to the general impression of Porsche owners if they don't acknowledge the performance virtues of the base Corvette as well as acknowledge what the differences are for the 2 to 2.5x price difference of a 991. It's a little oversimplified to dismiss it as more expensive in a single sentence.
The 911 is somewhat becoming like what some Aston Martin models were in the 2000's - very pretty to look at, very expensive, and as a sports car it is fast, but you can get nearly the same or even superior performance at a much lower price elsewhere. I always respected AM owners because the AM's were beautiful cars, the owners had big bucks to drop on them, and if I had so much disposable income that the performance/value sort of thing didn't matter then I would have bought one too. For the rest of us, identical (or nearly so) performance at half the price is worth rethinking things.
And I'm in the camp that doesn't like the rear of the Corvette too.
I think it does nothing but harm to the general impression of Porsche owners if they don't acknowledge the performance virtues of the base Corvette as well as acknowledge what the differences are for the 2 to 2.5x price difference of a 991. It's a little oversimplified to dismiss it as more expensive in a single sentence.
The 911 is somewhat becoming like what some Aston Martin models were in the 2000's - very pretty to look at, very expensive, and as a sports car it is fast, but you can get nearly the same or even superior performance at a much lower price elsewhere. I always respected AM owners because the AM's were beautiful cars, the owners had big bucks to drop on them, and if I had so much disposable income that the performance/value sort of thing didn't matter then I would have bought one too. For the rest of us, identical (or nearly so) performance at half the price is worth rethinking things.
There's a big problem with "performance" however. Anyone with a stop watch can measure 0-60 and lap times. What remains very hard to measure is what is the experience of the driver while setting that lap time? If we factor that out then sure the C7 is a great car. But then we're left puzzling why anyone buys a Rolls? Maybe driver experience is important after all?
My definition of performance encompasses more than how fast you can get there. If the car is noisy, from wind noise, loose or creaky body parts, that's an aspect of performance I think should be taken into account. Likewise, time. If I know the car has a reputation for enduring quality and reliability that's the kind of performance I place a very high value on.
But the greatest performance aspect of all is how does the car perform from the point of view of responding precisely, consistently and predictably to driver inputs and communicate with meaningful feedback the conditions on the ground. Or in short, perform like a drivers car. In this the 911 shines like no other.
Its these other areas of performance where the 911 not only justifies its premium, but sets itself apart in providing truly high value for the price.
12-01-2013, 04:05 PM
#291
Instructor
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What's exactly "glorious" about it? Please enlighten me.
12-01-2013, 04:47 PM
#292
Three Wheelin'
I got a chance to sit and tinker with 991 4S and C7 stingray at the Phoenix Auto Show.
Interior- is a draw, maybe slight edge to the vette. 991 has too many buttons, door pulls are flimsy, and PDK wheel shifters felt flimsy.
Exterior: 991. Vette is all plastic and number of edges everywhere is ridiculous.
Engine: Vette. At 1/2 the price of 4S it is a no-contest.
Interior- is a draw, maybe slight edge to the vette. 991 has too many buttons, door pulls are flimsy, and PDK wheel shifters felt flimsy.
Exterior: 991. Vette is all plastic and number of edges everywhere is ridiculous.
Engine: Vette. At 1/2 the price of 4S it is a no-contest.
12-01-2013, 05:34 PM
#293
You can see it....its called a Cayman S. Build quality and materials are excellent. Build quality should not be an issue whether a vehicle is 60K or 160K. Materials will, of course, differ.
12-01-2013, 05:43 PM
#294
C7 interior really looks bad in those photos as in worse than my neighbor's brand new Buick Verano. Actually, the Verano is a step up. Not joking for once. Suddenly clear to me it's not even worth my free time to crack jokes about it anymore. Given a choice, I would take a Cayman S over a C7.
http://www.edmunds.com/porsche/cayma...ison-test.html
I gotta unsubscribe from this thread. Comparing a 991 to a C7 was funny for awhile (and I did enjoy the humor) but now it is just pathetic.
Happy Sunday, ladies and gentlemen. Take care.
http://www.edmunds.com/porsche/cayma...ison-test.html
I gotta unsubscribe from this thread. Comparing a 991 to a C7 was funny for awhile (and I did enjoy the humor) but now it is just pathetic.
Happy Sunday, ladies and gentlemen. Take care.
12-01-2013, 05:45 PM
#295
Thanks for the photos. Would never have believed the 991 is so much better but seeing is believing. The C7 interior looks incredible cheap and flimsy. Just the steering wheel alone, materials and fit, integration of controls, amateur hour. On the outside, again never would have believed but even in car show snapshots its clear the 991 has much better quality paint. Look at the fit of the panels. The 991 door gaps almost disappear. Fit on the C7 varies, so much so that look at the 5th photo, the right rear wheel, the rear panel where it joins the fender panel sticks out a good couple millimeters! On a show car!!! Imagine the crap the average buyer gets!
You are right. At twice the price its no contest. The C7 ain't worth a tenth of a 991. Anyone looking at these two cars and not getting it, well as Mr T would say, "I pity da fool."
You are right. At twice the price its no contest. The C7 ain't worth a tenth of a 991. Anyone looking at these two cars and not getting it, well as Mr T would say, "I pity da fool."
12-01-2013, 06:13 PM
#297
Drifting
That C7 interior looks terrible in those photos. I have been in a few C7's and the interior is certainly not up to the full leather interiors of the 991, or my 997 for that matter, but didn't look as bad as that picture. I wonder if the lighting had something to do with it. Not defending the C7 here, just saying that the interior looks much worse than the ones I have seen.
12-01-2013, 06:17 PM
#298
Drifting
Point taken, and I had thought of the Cayman S when I made my initial comment, but most of the Cayman S cars at my dealer are more in the range of 80K+ than 60K. I just made the comment because sometimes I think we forget that the C7 cost half of what a average optioned 991S cost. Certainly, one would expect build quality and materials to be higher in the 120K car than the 60K C7.
12-01-2013, 06:22 PM
#299
Above left, two perplexed show attendees touch the car to confirm it is real; a man in shorts throws up while the one next to him tries to drown his sorrows; far right, man points and laughs; GM engineer in white jacket tries to hide behind the hood.
12-01-2013, 07:46 PM
#300
Drifting
Credibility is a great thing.