Saw my first C7 today
11-09-2013, 07:04 PM
#76
Thanks.
Had some fun today. Bob (Hammer911) was in Seattle with his son Bobby. Tried getting him to meet at Park Place so we could check out some Corvettes but he insisted on Barrier Porsche. (I did check their on-line inventory just in case, but just as I feared their selection is limited to Porsches.) We all saw the new Rhodium Silver for the first time, not all that impressed. Maybe overcast NW fall skies is not its favorite lighting. Also got first looks at the new Executive Panamera Stretch Limo. Bob looks to be about six feet, but he sat in back with plenty of room, both leg room and elbow clearance with the mini-bar/espresso/croissant-maker center console. We walked over to their pre-owned lot, where we saw a very low miles Turbo S, and something with a Ferrari badge and seats stitched up to look like a couple of great big driving gloves, and another thing with some other badge, Bent something or other. But alas, still no Corvettes.
Had some fun today. Bob (Hammer911) was in Seattle with his son Bobby. Tried getting him to meet at Park Place so we could check out some Corvettes but he insisted on Barrier Porsche. (I did check their on-line inventory just in case, but just as I feared their selection is limited to Porsches.) We all saw the new Rhodium Silver for the first time, not all that impressed. Maybe overcast NW fall skies is not its favorite lighting. Also got first looks at the new Executive Panamera Stretch Limo. Bob looks to be about six feet, but he sat in back with plenty of room, both leg room and elbow clearance with the mini-bar/espresso/croissant-maker center console. We walked over to their pre-owned lot, where we saw a very low miles Turbo S, and something with a Ferrari badge and seats stitched up to look like a couple of great big driving gloves, and another thing with some other badge, Bent something or other. But alas, still no Corvettes.
11-09-2013, 07:29 PM
#78
Very well said Chuck and I hope you're having a terrific birthday.
I'm a first generation American, and I have to say the US has a lot to learn about excellence as that term relates to cars. Low tech hunks of cheapo plastic interiors and ill fitting body panels that require and aircraft carrier sized engine to supply any power.
I take no pride in saying that. And I'm not going to listen to any lectures about patriotism. I love my country, and I'm embarrassed that produce such hunks of crap on wheels. We can send men to the moon, advanced explorers to Mars, yet apparently we are content to comtonue to design and build crap cars. The best of which can go fast in a straight line. Forget about corners, unless you'd like a trip into the weeds.
And this mode of thinking dates all the way back to Henry Ford - cheap *** cars for the masses. Unforuntely devoid of any sense of excellence in any area. And that way of being has continued ever since. Cars in Europe where born of a different mindset, where cost wasn't the key thing, and excellence was. Cars in Europe where largely for the upper class and those customers expected a lot - even way back when. And their mindset has lasted too - where Porsche and Mercedes design, engineer, and build outstanding vehicles.
Again if anyone would like to call me unpatriotic, I'd respond with being able to recognize and admit our flaws is the most patriotic thing of all. Sticking your head in the sand pretending the world isn't the way it really is - is just ignorance.
Ok ill step off my soap box now. It's time for new car companies in the US to show the lazy three that there's a better way.
I'm a first generation American, and I have to say the US has a lot to learn about excellence as that term relates to cars. Low tech hunks of cheapo plastic interiors and ill fitting body panels that require and aircraft carrier sized engine to supply any power.
I take no pride in saying that. And I'm not going to listen to any lectures about patriotism. I love my country, and I'm embarrassed that produce such hunks of crap on wheels. We can send men to the moon, advanced explorers to Mars, yet apparently we are content to comtonue to design and build crap cars. The best of which can go fast in a straight line. Forget about corners, unless you'd like a trip into the weeds.
And this mode of thinking dates all the way back to Henry Ford - cheap *** cars for the masses. Unforuntely devoid of any sense of excellence in any area. And that way of being has continued ever since. Cars in Europe where born of a different mindset, where cost wasn't the key thing, and excellence was. Cars in Europe where largely for the upper class and those customers expected a lot - even way back when. And their mindset has lasted too - where Porsche and Mercedes design, engineer, and build outstanding vehicles.
Again if anyone would like to call me unpatriotic, I'd respond with being able to recognize and admit our flaws is the most patriotic thing of all. Sticking your head in the sand pretending the world isn't the way it really is - is just ignorance.
Ok ill step off my soap box now. It's time for new car companies in the US to show the lazy three that there's a better way.
11-09-2013, 07:31 PM
#79
Sorry guys, not getting it. What I see in the C7 is a miss-mash of edges, swoops, cutouts, intakes, kind of thing kids would sketch on pee-chees back when kids still used pee-chees. I mean it is almost comical. No, scratch that, it IS comical! Just the hood alone has panels going in SIX different directions, PLUS a great big ugly vent, with a couple extra angles thrown in around it for whatever reason.
11-09-2013, 07:43 PM
#80
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Yep. It sure is unpopular to state the obvious - that American cars largely suck, when compared to Europe, namely Porsche/Audi/Mercedes. I work as a computer chip architect/designer, and what the US auto industry needs is a taste of the Silicon Valley mind set - where talented people have the audacity to believe they can do somthing better than whomever the giants of the day are - Intel, IBM, whomever. And sometimes they fail and sometimes they succeed. The audacious mindset continues through failure. That's exactly how the US has become the focal point of world wide semiconductors. Yes, we may not manufacture much these days, but you'd better believe the bright ideas, innovation, and chip architectures come from here.
There's no reason the same thing can't happen to the US auto industry. As much as I think electric cars isn't going to be the future, I'm really cheering on Tesla and the success they're having. Secretly hoping more auto up-starts appear. The big three dinasours clearly need to go.
I remember a presentation by GM I attended years ago. The president or someone close to the top opened his speech by "GM is so much more than a car company...." and basically didn't mention automobiles from that point on. I distinctly remember thinking, upon the conclusion of that talk, no wonder these people make such POS cars. They've utterly forgotten they *are* an automobile company.
There's no reason the same thing can't happen to the US auto industry. As much as I think electric cars isn't going to be the future, I'm really cheering on Tesla and the success they're having. Secretly hoping more auto up-starts appear. The big three dinasours clearly need to go.
I remember a presentation by GM I attended years ago. The president or someone close to the top opened his speech by "GM is so much more than a car company...." and basically didn't mention automobiles from that point on. I distinctly remember thinking, upon the conclusion of that talk, no wonder these people make such POS cars. They've utterly forgotten they *are* an automobile company.
Totally agree and it drives me nuts that we're so good at so many other things but when it comes to cars even upstarts like Hyundai put us to shame. I seriously doubt the US will ever be home to a large scale manufacturer of cars on the level of say BMW, never mind Porsche. But if there is to be any chance at all it sure isn't going to come from being ignorant of what constitutes good design, or being too nice to say so if we do. "Recognize and admit" has never been politically correct but it sure is patriotic.
11-09-2013, 08:09 PM
#81
Saw it today.
A sad sight as they missed the "timeless" mark by about a mile.
Yes, Porsche's do have their fair share of issues and the 996 was no means a "beauty", BUT the designers do keep revamping an iconic shape, which in itself is a unbelievable feat.
I sincerely believe C7 will look dated in 5 years...
A sad sight as they missed the "timeless" mark by about a mile.
Yes, Porsche's do have their fair share of issues and the 996 was no means a "beauty", BUT the designers do keep revamping an iconic shape, which in itself is a unbelievable feat.
I sincerely believe C7 will look dated in 5 years...
11-09-2013, 08:25 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
""I'm a first generation American, and I have to say the US has a lot to learn about excellence as that term relates to cars. Low tech hunks of cheapo plastic interiors and ill fitting body panels that require and aircraft carrier sized engine to supply any power.
I take no pride in saying that. And I'm not going to listen to any lectures about patriotism. I love my country, and I'm embarrassed that produce such hunks of crap on wheels. We can send men to the moon, advanced explorers to Mars, yet apparently we are content to comtonue to design and build crap cars. The best of which can go fast in a straight line. Forget about corners, unless you'd like a trip into the weeds. ""
Zombie.
True dat. Although we never would have made it to the moon without that fellow named Wernher Von Braun.
I take no pride in saying that. And I'm not going to listen to any lectures about patriotism. I love my country, and I'm embarrassed that produce such hunks of crap on wheels. We can send men to the moon, advanced explorers to Mars, yet apparently we are content to comtonue to design and build crap cars. The best of which can go fast in a straight line. Forget about corners, unless you'd like a trip into the weeds. ""
Zombie.
True dat. Although we never would have made it to the moon without that fellow named Wernher Von Braun.
11-09-2013, 09:04 PM
#83
Race Car
I went and sat in a new 'Vette the other day. Doing so was a truly life-changing event - it aroused a massive visceral response that will forever alter the way I view performance cars in general, and American-built muscle cars in particular.
....as a result, yesterday I bought a C2S.
....as a result, yesterday I bought a C2S.
11-09-2013, 09:05 PM
#84
Dux, the C7 looked dated 5 minutes after the 9 year old who grew up to be head of the 170-person C7 design committee first drew it on the door of his mom's refrigerator.
Zombie makes a great point. In fact Honda has a design center in Silicon Valley. So its not like America lacks capable individuals. The problem is a sclerotic corporate culture that he has pegged. When the head of the car company is afraid to say he's head of the car company, stick a fork in it, its done.
Zombie makes a great point. In fact Honda has a design center in Silicon Valley. So its not like America lacks capable individuals. The problem is a sclerotic corporate culture that he has pegged. When the head of the car company is afraid to say he's head of the car company, stick a fork in it, its done.
11-09-2013, 09:06 PM
#85
Race Car
Yep. It sure is unpopular to state the obvious - that American cars largely suck, when compared to Europe, namely Porsche/Audi/Mercedes. I work as a computer chip architect/designer, and what the US auto industry needs is a taste of the Silicon Valley mind set - where talented people have the audacity to believe they can do somthing better than whomever the giants of the day are - Intel, IBM, whomever. And sometimes they fail and sometimes they succeed. The audacious mindset continues through failure. That's exactly how the US has become the focal point of world wide semiconductors. Yes, we may not manufacture much these days, but you'd better believe the bright ideas, innovation, and chip architectures come from here.
There's no reason the same thing can't happen to the US auto industry. As much as I think electric cars isn't going to be the future, I'm really cheering on Tesla and the success they're having. Secretly hoping more auto up-starts appear. The big three dinasours clearly need to go.
I remember a presentation by GM I attended years ago. The president or someone close to the top opened his speech by "GM is so much more than a car company...." and basically didn't mention automobiles from that point on. I distinctly remember thinking, upon the conclusion of that talk, no wonder these people make such POS cars. They've utterly forgotten they *are* an automobile company.
There's no reason the same thing can't happen to the US auto industry. As much as I think electric cars isn't going to be the future, I'm really cheering on Tesla and the success they're having. Secretly hoping more auto up-starts appear. The big three dinasours clearly need to go.
I remember a presentation by GM I attended years ago. The president or someone close to the top opened his speech by "GM is so much more than a car company...." and basically didn't mention automobiles from that point on. I distinctly remember thinking, upon the conclusion of that talk, no wonder these people make such POS cars. They've utterly forgotten they *are* an automobile company.
11-09-2013, 10:09 PM
#86
11-09-2013, 10:43 PM
#87
Race Director
11-09-2013, 11:15 PM
#88
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You're absolutely right. Given that both of my parents are from Europe - my dad reminded me of the fact you point out below a couple times a day, or so it seemed anyway 
so I'm stunned that I've managed to block that fact from my memory.
Maybe it's time for me to pick up a pair if those old man pants pulled up to my sternum after all. ya, not gonna happen
so I'm stunned that I've managed to block that fact from my memory. Maybe it's time for me to pick up a pair if those old man pants pulled up to my sternum after all. ya, not gonna happen
11-09-2013, 11:44 PM
#89
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Younger buyers are probably indeed the target market for the corvette, as its a lower cost vehicle. I'm resisting using the term "cheaper" but I certainly think that's an appropriate descriptive term for that vehicle.
I'm sorry but the last paragraph made me laugh. "A clear sign of aging when you become less and less tolerant of different styles". Speaking for myself, I'm nowhere near old and I can tolerate the C7 design just fine. I just think it looks as ugly as a Boar's *** in my experience, age has little to do with one's taste. I know some old people with a really refined sense of style and taste, and young people who are absolute tools who can't even spell taste
in my experience, age has little to do with one's taste. I know some old people with a really refined sense of style and taste, and young people who are absolute tools who can't even spell taste
If you cannot tolerate yourself driving a C7 in part because you think its style is ugly, then you can not tolerate its style, pretty simple deduction. I am not saying older folks have no taste, only that they are less likely to accept others' tastes, or difference of opinions, especially those of the younger generations.
11-10-2013, 12:14 AM
#90
Burning Brakes
Chuck - I don't always agree with you, but can generally appreciate your point. This time however, you've gone too far and I have to point out you are wrong, plain and simple. I'm 6'2".
Enjoyed meeting you, and knowing who is behind some very entertaining rants...er..opinions. Plus your '79 is gorgeous.
Hammer
Enjoyed meeting you, and knowing who is behind some very entertaining rants...er..opinions. Plus your '79 is gorgeous.
Hammer