Hammer911

Sorry to keep posting the same pics...I'll have to take some new ones now that spring is slowly arriving. Anyway, you CAN keep a black car looking nice, and it really doesn't take all that long once you develop your routine. I do a regular wash and "speed wax" in about an hour. Periodic clay/polish (as necessary)/wax takes about 4 hours.

...and stuff happens, then you just have to deal with it. Car is dusty today, got splattered with some water this morning with apparently high mineral content. At lunchtime I noticed some nasty mineral deposits on the paint, wiped them off with some Griot's speed shine and microfiber I keep in the car. I'm quite certain the dust caused some fine scratches, but these will be much easier to remedy than the deeper etching the minerals would have done to the clearcoat if left to sit.

chuck911

TA, I'm ashamed to admit this but you didn't seem all that serious in the beginning and so I recommended the Griot's kit without really looking it over first. Its not like there's anything wrong with it, you will probably find everything useful, and anyway you save so much it hardly matters. But I only just now noticed this kit includes Fine Hand Polish but no Machine 4. FHP is great for when you get home and want to quickly take out the scratch from the lady who thought it would be okay to set her shopping bag on your fender, but for doing the whole car you want Machine 4 and the Orange polishing pad. You will also want a random orbital polisher. Griot's is very good and a lot of guys swear by it but honestly it is overkill. Any compact random orbital will do just fine. These are sold as random orbital sanders and often come with filter bags and stuff that make them seem unsuitable. But remove that stuff and you've got a nice lightweight unit. That's what I did with my Bosch. Just look for essential features- hook and loop pad, 4" or 6" diameter, variable speed, and pad spins freely (thus the 'random' part).

Some guys are afraid to machine polish. This is based on damage people have done using the old direct-drive polishers. These machines were capable of putting lots of damaging heat into the paint. With a random orbital, and especially with Machine 4 on an Orange pad, it is virtually impossible to damage your paint. A friend who paid big bucks for a "concours" finish at a very good pro shop was ticked off to see that my (older!) car looked better. He paid for that one job about what you just paid for all your supplies. So it is definitely worth the time and effort to learn how to use this stuff! Let me know when your kit arrives, I'll be happy to help you get it down.

chuck911

Thanks, Bob, this is a really important point! Some things like mineral deposits, bird droppings and bugs you want to remove ASAP, ideally before they dry and have a chance to etch into the paint. Carry a small bottle of Speed Shine and microfiber towel in the door compartment. The handier it is the more likely its used!

Also TA, be careful when cleaning like this. Remember, no pressure! Let the Speed Shine do the work. Its better to spray 3 or 4 times, gently removing a bit each time, than to get it all at once… and find you've scratched the paint.

Finally911

Good luck w/the new car. I went thru the same process about a month ago. Here's some sources of info, video's and link recommendations:
If you decide to buy anything you can find discount codes in the autogeek forum. Also, if your going to buy a bunch of stuff I would suggest calling the place and you'll probably get the best discount available plus they'll toss in more samples.

How to wash it with the 2 bucket systems:

Foam Master - this is what I use on my garden hose (available on Amazon)

Foam Canon if you have a power washer

I use a leaf blower to dry my car. I never get scratches this way

The guy from AAMO in NY puts out some amazingly detailed videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/AMMONYCdotcom/videos

The autogeek forum has a ton of good info too:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/

Autogeek Store:
http://www.autogeek.net/

Carpro Store:
http://www.carpro-us.com

Chemical Guys
http://www.chemicalguys.com/

Griots Garage
http://www.griotsgarage.com/

TheAnswer

Thanks for the helpful tips. Let me try this kit and see what I need from there. I've used a company who charges $100-120 to wax etc. and they really work on it for hours. I have no idea what he's doing out there I'll have to study this quite a bit. I like the orbital polisher idea, looks serious though!

chuck911

Videos like the above are fascinating to me. One thing they all have in common, they use a simply astounding amount of product, the vast majority of which is utterly wasted through a combination of unnecessary or poor technique. Watch the first video closely, for example. The guy covers the car in foam. But then notice how, when he starts washing @2:10, before he even touches the car the excess water on the mitt has rinsed all that costly foam right off the car! Plus, he starts with the windshield. Glass is much harder to scratch than paint, so if your aim is to avoid scratches then glass is the last place you would want to start. Also notice the way he talks about flipping the mitt over- but not before going back and forth several times over the same area! This may be fine on the already clean car he's doing, but on a really dirty car will result in scratches from pushing the dirt back and forth.

The one good idea shown is using several different mitts. But if you're going to do that why stop at three? Go the Full Monty and use enough to do the whole car without having to re-use any of them. Then just throw them all in the wash when you're done.

What's really fascinating about all this is that on the one hand it looks like with all the buckets and mitts, foam and sprayers and blowers and whatnot, a guy would think oh my God this has got to be the most outstanding best concours results you could get. But the truth is, by blowing so many little details (and I'm just getting started, it goes on and on), its nowhere close. You could do a lot better with one bucket, one mitt, no foam, sprayer or blower… and probably in half the time. But then, if everyone knew that then who would be left to buy all the crap they're selling?

Finally911

Chuck911,

I appreciate you feedback and thoughts. I gotta tell you though, they would be much more helpful if you offed them up front instead of refuting what others post. Clearly you have a wealth of knowledge, experience and the opportunity of time to do so.

Any chance you could provide some guidance on sealants vs coatings vs wax for paint as well as wheels?

BTW, The AMMO NYC channel is insanely detailed with his instruction. I'de be very curious if you disagree with any of his procedures.

chuck911

I hear you. And on that score, two things- one, if I were to write what you ask all at once it would be a book. And not a short novel either, there'd be volumes! And two, if you were to read through all my posts you'd find a number of times where I've already covered a lot of these same points.

My standard position is all you need is clay, polish and wax. Every single one of the very best of the best cars I've ever seen, that's all they had. The very few truly awesome ones, the ones where I just had to ask what did you use? The answer has always been Best of Show.

I have seen some otherwise decent shape cars completely ruined by sealants and coatings.

That said, there are a few things out there I would like the chance to see more of before deciding. I'm talking nano stuff. My hunch is that I have seen more than I think, and they just didn't register as something impressive or interesting enough to ask.

But here is my impression for now. There are a lot of products out there that will allow you to get a great shine and protect your paint. I've seen some photo's on RL of cars that really 'popped' which is what the owner was going for. Which means if that is what you're going for then go for it. But for me, and an awful lot of others, that is what a lot of us would call a 'hard' look. Scroll up to Bob's 991 to see what I mean. You can tell even in the low-res RL pic that his car has a deep, soft, almost buttery smooth look to it. Its hard even to see the paint, or be certain what color it is for that matter. There is a thread around here somewhere with pics of a very fine looking 991 with some sort of nano coating. The guy swears by it and his car shines to beat the band. But it does not have that buttery, inviting look.

Its a judgment call. Sometimes I even look at a really shiny car like the one I mentioned, and wonder if maybe years from now all the new cars will be nano'd and we'll look back and think the wax look was great, but it was great for those old cars.

But then I look at Bob's and … naaah, never happen.

Finally911

Chuck911 - great reply. Thanks. I'll go back, again, and re-read everything that you've posted. Appreciate the guidance based on your experience. My 991 is Rhodium Silver and I'm trying to figure out what method would work best on it. I can afford to spend about 2 hours / weekend washing/waxing it and maybe 1 / month doing a 4 hour more thorough job. I got it on 2/3 and washed / waxed it every weekend so far.

I've got a Griots DA polisher and planning to spend a weekend in April doing a thorough wash, clay, polish. Still up in the air about whether to coat with CQuartz UK or just keep waxing.

TheAnswer

Went from flaming me to a pretty decent thread after all! Cheers

chuck911

My year-round daily-driver (plus track, autocross, tours, vacations and occasional concours) routine involves a lot less time than you've budgeted.
1. Nightly dust and detail (California car duster and Speed Shine) for as long as the car stays dry. 10 min.
2. Once it gets rained on, then Friday wash. 45 min.
3. Early spring, early summer and late fall- clay and wax. 3-4 hrs (3 if water, 4 if beer.)
4. Once a year (one of the above, usually early spring), clay polish and wax. 4 hrs.

Clay/polish/wax times would be a lot less, but I'm a decrepit couch potato and in the habit of stopping often to admire my work. Times also are for doing just the painted exterior, not detailing interior, door jambs, wheels, etc, etc, as once you start talking about those it quickly proves the saying that work expands to fill the time available for its completion. Only in detailing, even faster than that.

ArashApollo

What about the interior? I keep trying different leather products but none seem to standout to me. Looking just for a preserver for my leather to last a decade

chuck911

Nothing stands out to me either. One problem is Porsche (and everyone else) refuses to do the right thing and install leather inside out. I learned this from the best pair of mountaineering boots I ever owned, the Scarpa Eiger. The problem is leather is skin, and skin is designed to keep what's outside from getting inside. Whatever goo you slather on the outside the leather is naturally doing its best to keep from getting in. From the inside though the same stuff will soak right in. Those boots sucked up conditioner and were as waterproof as could be.

Another reason nothing stands out is leather is so personal. With leather you care about how it looks, but also about how it smells as well as how it feels on your skin and clothes. I've used Griot's Leather Care and love it, especially on the steering wheel. But not everyone does. I've used Leatherique and prefer Griot's, but you may not care for either one. You can keep searching, or go to plan B.

Plan B is simply keeping it clean. Your best bet there is just like paint, use as little of the least aggressive products and be as gentle as possible. Excellence wrote up a 40 yr old 911 where the writer gushed about how time-capsuley the car looked. I don't recall the owner mentioning ANY conditioning products. Instead he talked about gently wiping everything with a clean white cloth dampened with distilled water. Sometimes he used a very dilute detergent followed by the water.

That's the approach I have followed ever since. Once or twice a year I'll take two 5 gal buckets of warm water, add an ounce or two of Griot's Interior Cleaner to one of them, and wipe everything down. I don't know what to do with Alcantara other than vacuum, but everything else you can clean this way. Gently wipe with the dilute solution. Go as wet as you can without water running everywhere. Gently wipe dry with a clean 100% cotton cloth. Repeat with clean warm water. Don't wipe fast and be as gentle as possible. Fold your drying towel the instant you notice any color or dirt on it. That cloth is the key to the whole process, and it must be absolutely clean to remove dirt and not just push it around. Do a small area like a seat or the dash then move to the next area. By the time you're done the first areas should be completely dry and ready for Leather Care, or whatever conditioner, if you want to use one.

But unless you take everything apart and apply conditioner to the inside, very little of anything will actually soak in. And even then.... Yes I know they all claim otherwise, but realize that in order to dye leather they have to soak it in a rotating drum with big steel ***** that literally churn and beat the dye into the leather. And its not just dye, but includes chemicals to treat the leather making it even more water and stain resistant and stable. What are the odds you're really going to get much penetration with a few minutes of hand slathering? On the other hand there is a great thread in the Carrera GT section where they reconditioned leather seats by removing and cleaning then slathering on copiously something or other and roasting the seats in a sauna over the weekend. To judge by the photo's it seemed to work great. But man what a project!

TheAnswer

Anyone have tips for care of the convertible top canvas on the cabriolet?

Homeles

Here's something you might want to try. Surflex Leather "Soffener"

I've applied this to seats in a 62 356C and the results were amazing. Granted, I sealed the seats after application in plastic for 10 days in 80 degree weather, but the seats were like new! Found it at carcareonline.com