Penn4S

I agree. Porsche has decades of experience with Turbo vehicles. I had a few Porsche TT cars and as far as reliability and drivability they were amazing cars. I like my 991 4S NA but really do miss the kick in the pants power of the TT cars.

NoGaBiker

Well, Porsche had a lot of experience with intermediate shaft bearings prior to 1996 (the vaunted Mezger engines have IMS), for what that's worth...

Which is not to say the 9A2 will be problematic. Just that it IS a new design in some ways and who knows? Porsche's familiarity with mechanical engineering didn't prevent SC airboxes from exploding without a popoff valve added, didn't prevent chain tensioners from failing, didn't prevent distributor problems in 964s and 993s, didn't prevent wacky 964 clutches from grenading early, etc.

EDIT: Forgot to add a biggie -- Mezger M64 engines in Turbos and GT cars busting their plastic cooling line fittings and dumping all coolant. Six fittings need to be pinned or replaced, at an engine-out cost of about 2 grand or more. Some track events ban 996/997 Turbos and GT cars unless this PM has been done, to prevent the guy behind you finding himself on a coolant-slicked track entering Turn 6 at 65mph.

Penn4S

Those kinds of Problems with Porsche and others are not exclusive to the turbo cars only. The NA cars had their issues too

NoGaBiker

??? I was listing a string of problems with NA cars over the decades, problems in areas where Porsche already had a lot of experience with mechanical engineering principles. But the introduction of a new or even slightly revised motor often has led to unintended problems that Porsche's customers served as the unpaid Beta testers for, usually with Porsche denying there was any problem and the aftermarket simply stepping in and fixing things with better engineering.

Ergo, just because Porsche has decades of turbo experience doesn't mean the 9A2 will be problem-free.

Doug H

??? It is the NAs that have been typically plagued with issues throughout the years.

Porsche turbos have always been pretty much bullet proof based on my experience using them as DD from 90s until 2010 and I put a lot of miles on cars (30k on 94t, 60k on a 97tt, 50k on an 01tt, 80k on a 04tt, 65k on 07tt).

Zero problems with the turbos yet x-wife's 04C2 had RMS when about a year old . . . I drive my cars extremely hard and had 750hp on the 01 and still not problems at 50k miles.

That said, we are now looking at the FI on Porsche base models and the base models, albeit historically NA, was where the reliability gremlins seemed to raise their ugly heads.

I am a Ferrari guy and facing same thing with them. I love, love, LOVE my 458 and all of the NAV8s I had before it. . . Time to upgrade and spent time in the 488 and as much as I hate to admit it, its just a better car. Lol, I think this thread is actually help push me toward the upgrade . . .

GSIRM3

Turbocharging is well understood, but reliability issues might come in the form of turbocharger failure, not engine related failure. Anything that spins as fast as a turbocharger is going to fail at some point. Lubrication and cooling of the turbo bearings is better than it was, but they will still eventually fail. When they do, look out for a big service bill to replace the turbo, if the car is out of warranty.

Roosell

Agreed, and in addition I think the tremendous heat that collects cannot be ignored. I'm not anti-turbo, in fact I have two turbocharged cars now (non-Pcars). I have had experience with a water cooled turbo loosing a seal and dumping the coolant out the exhaust at triple digit speeds.

When I catch up and finally drive a 991.2, I'll probably be enamored with them like the people who are driving them now. But if I buy one I'll do so with clear eyes about what long term ownership is likely to cost.

997s07

The 9A1 was designed with the 9A2 in mind. The 9A2 is more or less the 9A1 with turbos. Last Fall Petevb looked at both engines and wrote up a nice summary for us. Pete is very credible.

Reliability of the 9A2 should be good given that the 9A1 has been stellar so far.

Doug H

I am curious what information you and the guy you quoted have about turbochargers failing on Porsche Turbos. I have driven the pissss out of them over the years, put 20,000/25,000 miles a year on various turbos, always tweaked them for additional horsepower and never had a turbo fail nor have I heard of failing turbos being a problem.

I am sure they have failed, but I can provide a laundry list of common issues with both the NA and turbos over the years. The common issues I think of for the turbos are typically not engine related whereas I can think of several biggie engine problems for the NA motors some of which reared their ugly heads later.

Penn4S

Totally agree with the above statements. I have owned 4 Porsche TT cars of various vintage, 2 of which were tuned and were driven hard and I never had a turbo issue nor do I know anyone that has. During those years of ownership
I was constantly on RL and other Turbo forums and also never heard of these types of issues.

I had an RMS issue on one that was quickly dealt with by Porsche but the cars were flawless mechanically otherwise.

I feel sometimes the comments made here are not fact based but what someone wants to be real to justify an argument or their own ownership.

The new cars will most likely be great, suck it up and accept it. Most likely faster and better handling than the .1. You don't have to buy one but it isn't necessary to slam them just to validate your current ride.

solomonschris

The thing I worry about with the new cars is all the electronics. Replacing a turbo is not really that big a deal. I wonder at the cost to replace the inertial sensor and its processor. Those probably aren't the correct names, but I hope you get my point. Anecdotes prove nothing, but when I had my '97tt I was on that Rennlist forum and there was a fellow that had a tt with something like 250k that had never had any work other than general maintenance. I wonder if concern over the cost to replace the electronics in the out years is the reason the cars depreciate to much.....Chris

Tangerine

I have way more faith in Porsche than any other brand. I also trust them to fix any issues that come up, they have shown this many times. If it was the same bits from the Turbo then that would be more peace of mind, but they are actually better/newer--which also means hasn't stood the test of time. Odds are it will, but if I had to bet on the state of a car 20 years from now, one with NA + manual, the other a brand new turbo + DSG, there's so many extra bits that can have issues. Complexity is awesome, but also liability.

If you are leasing you should absolutely get a 991.2 without hesitation. It's the best car available until the next one comes out. Once Porsche can wrap a completely new body around the turbo design it will be even better. Looking at what they did from the old Panamera to the new one makes me excited for the future. 991.2 is a also a great preview of what is to come.

Roosell

I can't find where either of us singled out "Porsche Turbos". I think you misread.

Doug H

Lol, I guess you guys were commenting on the reliability of Ferrari turbo chargers in this thread discussing new Porsche 991s, Porsche NA power versus Porsche FI power and the potential reliability of the new 991s given that they now all have turbos.

That said, reliability has been somewhat of a concern from me going from my 458 to the 488 as Ferrari does not have the long track record Porsche does with mass producing very reliable turbo engines.

The only downside I see to all 911s have forced induction is that now I would feel uneasy about paying that big fat premium for a Porsche turbo when they are all turbos and the base turbos should be easy to tweek for more hp. We are also hitting the point of traction limitations in 0 - 60 acceleration so what's the point of dropping 2 large for a Porsche turbo any more . . ., especially when you can purchase something that looks as good as a 458, 488, Huracan or McLaren for not much more than the turbo prices.

This is actually great new for the guys buying the entry level 911.

Roosell

I don't think we are communicating. Best wishes.