Manual Transmission Feedback
10-30-2021, 07:37 PM
#47
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10-30-2021, 11:11 PM
#48
Race Director
Originally Posted by Jbravo23
I agree. I think these type of cars along with us are a dying breed. I don’t see the demand for manual, naturally aspirated cars increasing in the future. At this point it’s more for financial reasons (flipping) than the love of the car.
They are getting easier to drive not necessarily “better”. Ring times don’t necessarily translate to a better drive on the street. I recently drove a carrera RS. What a handful, full attention on deck at all times and for me more of what I’m looking for at the moment to add alongside 991.2.
They are getting easier to drive not necessarily “better”. Ring times don’t necessarily translate to a better drive on the street. I recently drove a carrera RS. What a handful, full attention on deck at all times and for me more of what I’m looking for at the moment to add alongside 991.2.
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bergx7 (10-31-2021)
10-31-2021, 12:02 AM
#49
Originally Posted by michaeldorian
If you felt it was boring having owned one, definitely manual! Don’t question yourself for sure.
Side benefit - This is RL and we have to talk about value. Manual will more desirable. 😉
Side benefit - This is RL and we have to talk about value. Manual will more desirable. 😉
I agree manual prob worth more. But not too worried about value, has to be what I want.
10-31-2021, 12:09 AM
#50
Originally Posted by TexasPorschelover
I'm just not that good. Love my manual gearbox low power 964 and looking forward to a pdk GT3. In both cases I will have my hands full LOL! Oh and I have a Spyder on order too - manual gearbox for that one. They are both great and it is awesome we have a choice!
10-31-2021, 02:33 AM
#51
When the first generation of trackable BEVs with massive power, no gears, next-level lap times and human assists, hits the scene in a few years, the feelings towards gearboxes is going to change. I think it will be true that certain ICE cars will be in very high demand, possibly the GT3. With gearboxes, I think PDK is going to remind people how pointless and old school gearboxes are. Just like PDK, having no gears means no involvement - so wow, this whole continuous and seamless wave of power is so much better when not interrupted by this switching gear thing. However, a lot of people will relish the days of being involved in changing gears on their own with a manual - it will be a symbol of everything lost and loved about ICE. It will be worse than manuals commanding a premium, PDKs will be avoided like the slushboxes of yore. It won't happen fast, but the folks who like PDK now because it's easier and "faster", and lets them focus on driving, are really going to take to BEV track cars that are immensely faster and employ really clever control systems that continue to make driving faster easier. They will jump into the BEV camp and no one will be left wanting PDKs.
Just you watch....
Just you watch....
BUT I am not really focused on resale, just curious to hear from folks that have experienced the 992 with manual and how it compares to others they have driven.
To me its a bit like running a 991 or 992 on PS4S tires. They are awesome, and plenty fast, and way better in the rain, but you are absolutely, unequivocally, changing something that the suspension/chassis was designed around (Cup 2's) and losing some dynamicism / performance because of it. The PDK is similar. The car was engineered around that, and then offered with something else. There are certain roads that my PDK 991 comes alive in ways that are different than my manual 997 or the manual 991's I have driven. The way that trick rear diff allows you to explode out of a 1st gear corner while the car scrabbles for grip is pretty magical. I don't think I would access some of the 991's breadth of character if it was a manual (although I did find the manual 991 way more engaging when driven less aggressively and/or on certain more open roads). Just my opinion, based on a decent amount of seat time in both. Certainly no right or wrong answer.
My quandary is whether there is enough added character to make it worth the trade off in performance, or more pointedly, if the car feels as "natural" as a manual as it does as a PDK. The little issue with folks stalling the 992 is a perfect example of where the 992 seems to be moving farther down the path of being optimized for PDK.
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Mercuriell (12-25-2021)
10-31-2021, 02:51 AM
#52
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The 991 GT3 was designed around both manual and PDK gearboxes, but they didn’t have budget or production capacity to do both from start when it was not yet known that the demand for the objectively slower manual could justify the additional cost of offering both (until huge demand for 911R settled the question). Both gearboxes were tested in mules from the beginning. For the 992, it was even known earlier that both gearboxes would be used - not an afterthought.
People lamented that the 991.2 GT3 could not be optioned with a single-mass flywheel like the 911R. So, Porsche lightened the flywheel in the 992 (for free) and a consequence is that it’s more responsive and dynamic (but easier to stall, as is always the case when you lighten a flywheel). It now drives better, but requires more of the driver. Doesn’t mean the car was more optimized for PDK.
Generally when people debate which to buy, PDK is right for them. The manual people typically know they want manual all along.
People lamented that the 991.2 GT3 could not be optioned with a single-mass flywheel like the 911R. So, Porsche lightened the flywheel in the 992 (for free) and a consequence is that it’s more responsive and dynamic (but easier to stall, as is always the case when you lighten a flywheel). It now drives better, but requires more of the driver. Doesn’t mean the car was more optimized for PDK.
Generally when people debate which to buy, PDK is right for them. The manual people typically know they want manual all along.
Last edited by GrantG; 10-31-2021 at 03:10 AM.
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10-31-2021, 12:10 PM
#54
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Thread Starter
I always wanted a manual GT3. But at the time when I was in market for one (3 years ago), driving the manual GT3 back to back with the RS did not leave a very good impression of the GT3. The steering had some slack that I didnt really like vs RS steering being sharper. The suspension was too soft to my liking and also the sound was not that mechanical noise I enjoy in RS. So I ended up going with RS not because I am not a manual guy but because the manual option in a GT3 was only with a car that was too inferior to the RS.
This time around, it looks like 992 GT3 has all the things in the RS that I like (minus the sound but I think that can be fixed with full headers and removing some sound deadening) and it comes in manual. The only issue is the silly ADMs but I think 992 GT3 is the perfect car for me. Eventually I'll get one and replace the RS.
This time around, it looks like 992 GT3 has all the things in the RS that I like (minus the sound but I think that can be fixed with full headers and removing some sound deadening) and it comes in manual. The only issue is the silly ADMs but I think 992 GT3 is the perfect car for me. Eventually I'll get one and replace the RS.
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10-31-2021, 12:36 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Demand for these will always be there.. in fact the more cars become automated/EV/appliances, the more demand there will be for a raw experience (however you define that). Future generations of humans aren't going to soulless robots.. we have loved noise and vibration and brashness since beginning of time... it's called testosterone.
demand will be there no doubt but will they be affordable? The less they become available the higher the price will be. If these companies make the switch to ev by 2035 where does that leave the following generation? The loss of testosterone is why we’re in the position we’re in now.
Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they started charging a fee for every mile driven in a NA car. We may not see that but our kids kids might. Every inspection sticker get hit with a surcharge. They’re already testing for ecu changes in California. The more the system advances with computers the easier for them to control the situation. like it or not that’s where we’re headed.
Plus the soulless robots are already here. Just take a look around a you in public, at a gathering, in a restaurant or club. Even the freeway everyone staring down at their phones
Last edited by Jbravo23; 10-31-2021 at 12:41 PM.
10-31-2021, 04:07 PM
#56
10-31-2021, 05:01 PM
#57
The 991 GT3 was designed around both manual and PDK gearboxes, but they didn’t have budget or production capacity to do both from start when it was not yet known that the demand for the objectively slower manual could justify the additional cost of offering both (until huge demand for 911R settled the question). Both gearboxes were tested in mules from the beginning. For the 992, it was even known earlier that both gearboxes would be used - not an afterthought.
People lamented that the 991.2 GT3 could not be optioned with a single-mass flywheel like the 911R. So, Porsche lightened the flywheel in the 992 (for free) and a consequence is that it’s more responsive and dynamic (but easier to stall, as is always the case when you lighten a flywheel). It now drives better, but requires more of the driver. Doesn’t mean the car was more optimized for PDK.
Generally when people debate which to buy, PDK is right for them. The manual people typically know they want manual all along.
People lamented that the 991.2 GT3 could not be optioned with a single-mass flywheel like the 911R. So, Porsche lightened the flywheel in the 992 (for free) and a consequence is that it’s more responsive and dynamic (but easier to stall, as is always the case when you lighten a flywheel). It now drives better, but requires more of the driver. Doesn’t mean the car was more optimized for PDK.
Generally when people debate which to buy, PDK is right for them. The manual people typically know they want manual all along.
At the risk of this thread devolving into "manuals are better, you wouldn't understand" folks vs. sheepish PDK owners chiming in ("happy with mine too y'all") I also respectfully disagree with your view about which to buy being quite so obvious. If there were cars available to test drive, this would be a much easier question to answer. In lieu of that, and with a build slot rapidly approaching, I am soliciting feedback from folks that have driven both.
Have a look at my garage. I am definitely generally a "manual person" but still appreciate some advice from those more experienced than me with this generation
10-31-2021, 06:13 PM
#58
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Yes the 911R manual was initially used in 991.1 mules (and then sidelined until 911R development). Chassis/suspension settings on all generations were still optimized around PDK based cars and unchanged for manuals. Doesn't mean you can't have a stonking good time in the manual, just an objective fact.
At the risk of this thread devolving into "manuals are better, you wouldn't understand" folks vs. sheepish PDK owners chiming in ("happy with mine too y'all") I also respectfully disagree with your view about which to buy being quite so obvious. If there were cars available to test drive, this would be a much easier question to answer. In lieu of that, and with a build slot rapidly approaching, I am soliciting feedback from folks that have driven both.
Have a look at my garage. I am definitely generally a "manual person" but still appreciate some advice from those more experienced than me with this generation
At the risk of this thread devolving into "manuals are better, you wouldn't understand" folks vs. sheepish PDK owners chiming in ("happy with mine too y'all") I also respectfully disagree with your view about which to buy being quite so obvious. If there were cars available to test drive, this would be a much easier question to answer. In lieu of that, and with a build slot rapidly approaching, I am soliciting feedback from folks that have driven both.
Have a look at my garage. I am definitely generally a "manual person" but still appreciate some advice from those more experienced than me with this generation
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bergx7 (11-01-2021)
11-01-2021, 09:46 PM
#59
Cheers, its admittedly a very lucky problem to have 
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GrantG (11-01-2021)
11-01-2021, 09:53 PM
#60
My 991.2 manual was the finest manual transmission car I've ever owned. So positive and direct, heel toe telepathic, just wonderful. My initial impression so far is the same with the 992. Yes, the flywheel is a tad lighter but not egregiously so and easily adapted to over time. Make no mistake, this is not the overly burdensome, flyweight clutch of a F430 gated manual or Gallardo 10cyl manual which can be extremely difficult to drive smoothly Yes, occasionally if you're not concentrating, you might flub it but you just need to pay more attention. It can be driven lazily around town but it LOVES to be driven deep into the corner, a firm stab of the brakes, blip the throttle, and go. It's orgasmic. Is a PDK faster and more consistent on track? Heck yeah, but I don't get paid for my lap times. I pay to have fun and for me, a manual is just more fun.
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