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My opinion, current factory turbo cars don't really display "lag", they come on strong at low rpm but the FI rush of boost and hp farther up the rpm range makes one think the car is laggy when in reality they aren't.
These cars can pull 0-100 in 5 or so seconds, if not better, 60-130 in low 5's, upper 4's.
They're not laggy.
We have become spoiled.
These types of cars just pull so hard in the upper rpms it skews perceptions a bit.
I am not questioning the driving dynamics or reliability of the Artura (although I do have my opinions on both), but one does wonder why there are so many lightly used Arturas for sale and so many new Arturas sitting on dealer lots.
because the released the car before it was fully baked leading to a lot of early press issues, but the car was so delayed they basically forced release, which was a big reason mike flewitt stepped down. then the car did not show in its best form, a lot of bad press, etc. i've spent a lot of time in one. great car, no issues. if anything a little too boring and soft compared to previous mclarens. it rides like a lexus compared to a 992 turbo s.
I have been a very much of a public critique of mclaren for a long time. In terms of fit and finish, quality, and as a brand and I always said that I would see myself owning last and would prefer to buy a Ferrari or Lambogrhini.
Fast forward to yesterday where I visited a mclaren dealership for a test drive they offered (I wasnt really asking) for the new Artura.
To say that I was blown away is an understatement. Fit and finish of the exterior and interior was unbelievable. Every curve and scoop has a function and isnt there for looks. Inside the cabin the materials and how they fit together was surprisingly good. Its a very simplistic design, very elegant and I loved it.
Then came the drive. The steering, suspension, transmission, and engine are all 1-2 levels above any of the Porsche model in their top respective areas. What I mean is if we consider GT3RS in porsche to have the best steering, mclaren is much better. If we consider turbo s to be best in engine performace, mclaren is better. So if you were to hypothetically take every 911 trim and make a Frankenstein car, it still would not be as good.
Whats most impressive to me was ride quality. It was so much more comfortable than a Turbo S but it handled and cornered as good as my GT3RS. The steering feedback was unreal. Transmission is so good and at higher rpms feels better than PDK-S in my GT3RS. And the engine feels like a 8 liter v10 with lots of displacement and torque, zero lag. The throttle is so linear and pulls SO HARD after 6500 rpm to the redline.
I have test driven more cars than I care to remember. But the last time I was grinning like this was when I test drove a GT3 in 2015. Before that was when I drove an E90 M3 in 2009. I drove and owned many cars in between, much better cars than these cars I test drove but for some reason these two test drives were the ones I still remember and I get goosebumps. This test drive with Artura was the 3rd one.
I have literally placed a deposit for a Q1 2024 750S deliver on the spot. And this car I drove wasnt even 7 series mclaren. I cannot even imagine how 750S will feel.
Now I wanted post this here because I used to HATE mclarens. I learned a lesson yesterday. But I want the forum to know if I am saying these words above, I would absolutely consider mclaren.
The last part will probably hit a few nerves. The amount of money Porsche charges for a Turbo S is too much for what the car is. My new Turbo S built is up there at almost $300k (PTS, etc etc). My 750S build is $75,000 more. Artura would be LESS than turbo s. It is so much money for what you get. Porsche feels like an M4 compared to mclaren. I wish Porsche made a 3100 lbs comfortable 800 hp forced induction model and charge a bit more. I would buy it.
I was looking at Brooks (drag times) stock 720S times. He ran a 9.4@149 mph in a bone stock mclaren. 60-130 was 5 seconds flat. The new mclaren will have 765lt performance with 765lt gearbox, aero, and more horsepower. And here I am thinking Turbo S is fast trapping 134mph. They are like completely different cars. I’m sure tuned Turbo will break 140 mph but I dont think anything is touching the outgoing 720S short of full engine rebuild in Turbo S pushing over 1100 hp. Its just so heavy.
Anyways, I had to share this. I will still buy the TTS because I am a sucker for Porsche. But my eyes are wide open now lol.
Compared to a 992 TT/TTS, yes, there's lag, or more precisely, the turbos do not spool up as quick.
The 720 has boost from virtually idle speed just like the TT/TTS but obviously has some turbo surge as the boost increases so you could call it "maximum boost lag" but on track it's largely irrelevant b/c the turbos are always spooled up since you're generally keeping the car at higher RPMs and rarely starting off from 1st gear.
Around town there will be a bit of "lag" or delay getting to maximum boost but that's more a result of how you are driving a car (like a normal person) than a function of how the car is behaving.
Last edited by ipse dixit; 08-28-2023 at 06:39 PM.
That may be all well and good, everything you wrote, but I would never, ever be seen driving a Mclaren, anywhere. Way too flashy for me, not my style at all, and I'm a Porsche guy from when I was a kid, many years before I ever could dream of owning one. I liked their ads when I was kid and had to have one. I'm on my 4th and love it, I don't feel like it's overpriced at all, and on a 4-5 hour trip, it's so comfortable on my back as well as my passenger.
I like that it flies totally under the radar, and I mostly just use it to meet up w/friends, run errands, day trips, overnight trips, no track time or crazy fast speed driving. It's the Camry of superfast cars, and is bulletproof so far, 18 mos in, just like my 2012 Turbo S was.
We can't win arguments on the internet, and I appreciate the fact that you wrote about what salt does to the undercarriage. Thx for that, I don't plan on using it when salt is out now in the winter. Good to know.
Max is comparing it to a naturally aspirated engine. So … sure ? It’s quite manageable by being in the right gear, and much less lag than the older macs. I’d say it has just a tiny bit more than the TTS. It also has over 50% the torque and 50% more hp than the gt3 and it weighs the same so … **** it who cares ? The thing is a spaceship. It has an urgency of torque delivery that’s closer to BEV than any ice Porsche. And the suspension is much much much no seriously there is no contest much better than the gt3. The 720 slices through rough pavement gracefully. The gt3 suspension is just much stiffer and has less dynamic range. It’s extremely bouncy at speed on less than ideal pavement
This is comparing a sub $200k msrp with an over 300k msrp. It ought to be that much better. It’s faster than a gt2rs.
I will repeat: a Turbo S is far more versatile than any McLaren and is meant to be a car that can do literally everything. A McLaren not so much! Depends on what you want, I guess.
You driving a McLaren hard in the rain?
You driving a McLaren in winter on any snow? Just wondering.
Yes with PPF and the correct tires, I’d drive the cars in the same weather conditions. And, I’d put PPF and the right tires on the TTS too. Obviously.
mclaren unreliability forum narratives are about as exaggerated as porsche reliability forum narratives. mclarens are great cars. the artura is objectively better than a Turbo S in every single possible way. only reason to buy a Turbo S is because you want a porsche and back seats. buy what you like. but the mclaren is the better driving car. porsche's ARE NOT SPECIAL. they are very good cars based on a compromised and generic platform. the carbon tub car with electrohydraulic steering and advanced suspension will always feel better than the steel car with electric steering and macpherson setup. this shouldnt be surprising to anyone.
I'll never forget the day I was getting my 991.2 bulletproof Turbo PPF'd at a Chicago shop when one of the guys summons me over to look at a McLaren and the crack in the roof...car was brand new.
Nobody will ever convince me that McLaren build quality is same or better than Porsche. No way.
McLarens are also depreciation machines, big time. And there's a reason.
As I stated a few times here, they are not really $100k+ more for my use case. My new TTS as optioned is close to $300k msrp and the 750S I built is about $50k more than that. At this price point, $50,000 is a wash and the whole point of this thread is to simply state given how expensive TTS became due to price increases it is no longer a bargain once it was. Its performance compared to mclaren is poor. You get such a better driving car (not just straightline speed) with a McLaren.
TTS really needs to be a $200k car (as optioned) for $350k mclaren (as optioned) to not appear attractive given each car's performance footprint. I understand Porsche's fit and finish is the best in industry. I get it and I agree with this. But the price they charge for this is too high and the performance they provide (3660 lbs car with 630 hp) isn't really paired well with that price.
You always need to put things in perspective.
To give you an example, I also don't think the new Z06 is a bargain as everyone thought it would be. My incoming Z06 has a $180k sticker (and I am paying sticker for it). Given the fit and finish of Z06, I think it would be 30% less. OR mclaren should charge another $100k on top of the current price to make Porsche look attractive.
But even then, as I stated earlier, Porsche does not make a car that can compete with Mclaren's feel. I drove a 3400 lbs car and it feels more nimble/alive than my 3290 lbs GT3RS. The power of 600+ hp Artura was unreal vs the TTS. Well Artura is cheaper than TTS. If that's Arutra, let's think about 750S. 750S is a higher trim/power plant. It weighs 150 lbs less than my GT3RS, has more power. Which Porsche can compete with it? Not in a race track with insane aero, I mean the way you and me or anyone would drive in street.
When is your delivery of your 300+ PTS TTS? What color? I assume you are looking to sell it?
Last edited by Billy Bluejay; 08-29-2023 at 12:14 AM.
I am not questioning the driving dynamics or reliability of the Artura (although I do have my opinions on both), but one does wonder why there are so many lightly used Arturas for sale and so many new Arturas sitting on dealer lots.
I've seen just as many GT3s with mileage in the double digits so I'm not going to think that's an issue with the car.
That being said, yeah McLarens don't have the best reliability reputation, hahahaha. Hopefully that new warranty they're having speaks volumes.
08-28-2023, 05:46 PM
