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I am wondering if such a variant will be offered on every market or only in a few selected ones that may see some demand: maybe China, Middle East or Russia...
But then again also the Cayenne looked like a risky bet in 2000 and Porsche just started a trend.
On the other hand, the first presentation on the 959 was at Frankfurt Motor Show in 1983 and a MY 2023 off-road 911 may be a celebration version of some sort.
But then again also the Cayenne looked like a risky bet in 2000 and Porsche just started a trend.
Porsche didn't start the sporty suv - that was the BMW X5. Porsche saw that thing selling like mad, and decided to follow suit. Credit where credit is due.
Porsche didn't start the sporty suv - that was the BMW X5. Porsche saw that thing selling like mad, and decided to follow suit. Credit where credit is due.
I'd say Lexus started the trend before BMW. Both the LX and the RX were incredibly popular and years earlier than the X5.
Unfortunately for everyone who has to look at other cars on the road, BMW did create the trend of "coupe" SUVs. Well I guess Pontiac accidentally created that style with the Aztek, but BMW was able to make something that was just slightly less hideous from the exterior and looked nice inside. Pour one out for the Aztek. It was ahead of its time.
I'd say Lexus started the trend before BMW. Both the LX and the RX were incredibly popular and years earlier than the X5.
Unfortunately for everyone who has to look at other cars on the road, BMW did create the trend of "coupe" SUVs. Well I guess Pontiac accidentally created that style with the Aztek, but BMW was able to make something that was just slightly less hideous from the exterior and looked nice inside. Pour one out for the Aztek. It was ahead of its time.
I don't know anyone who would refer to a Lexus SUV as "sporty". They were luxurious, but not at all Sporty. If I recall correctly, they also were body on frame, unlike X5 which was unibody. Huge difference.
I don't know anyone who would refer to a Lexus SUV as "sporty". They were luxurious, but not at all Sporty. If I recall correctly, they also were body on frame, unlike X5 which was unibody. Huge difference.
I guess that's entirely based on your definition of "sporty". The LX was just a Toyota Land Cruiser with a sprinkling of lux trimmings. By pretty much any traditional definition of what puts the Sport in SUV, the LX had it. Now if you're instead talking more about today's almost re-definition of "sport" in this vehicle class and how fast it can get around the ring, then yea sure, it wasn't very sporty in that regard. The RX for sure wasn't as "sporty" as the LX, but it had the lux element nailed down and you'd be silly to think that BMW built the X5 to sell to the tiny market that wants to be able to go camp in the Australian outback as opposed to the massive market that just wants to look like they go camping in the Australian outback while they instead drive to Whole Foods and soccer practice inside their luxury vehicle. The RX was a unibody, not like it matters. Maybe 5 people in all of history have ever asked the dealer salesman what kind of frame their SUV has.
I guess that's entirely based on your definition of "sporty". The LX was just a Toyota Land Cruiser with a sprinkling of lux trimmings. By pretty much any traditional definition of what puts the Sport in SUV, the LX had it. Now if you're instead talking more about today's almost re-definition of "sport" in this vehicle class and how fast it can get around the ring, then yea sure, it wasn't very sporty in that regard. The RX for sure wasn't as "sporty" as the LX, but it had the lux element nailed down and you'd be silly to think that BMW built the X5 to sell to the tiny market that wants to be able to go camp in the Australian outback as opposed to the massive market that just wants to look like they go camping in the Australian outback while they instead drive to Whole Foods and soccer practice inside their luxury vehicle. The RX was a unibody, not like it matters. Maybe 5 people in all of history have ever asked the dealer salesman what kind of frame their SUV has.
You're mistaken. X5 was the first "drivers" SUV. That's why it was so successful. Unibody + independent suspension was brand new for the category, and moved the SUV from a boring grocery getter truck to something an enthusiast could opt for when having to trade their sports car for something suited for a family.
I don't know where you're getting Australian outback - that was never X5's intention. It's not terribly competent off road.
You're mistaken. X5 was the first "drivers" SUV. That's why it was so successful. Unibody + independent suspension was brand new for the category, and moved the SUV from a boring grocery getter truck to something an enthusiast could opt for when having to trade their sports car for something suited for a family.
I don't know where you're getting Australian outback - that was never X5's intention. It's not terribly competent off road.
I don't think I'm mistaken so much as you simply seem to have a different definition of what an SUVs purpose is/was and the meaning of "sporty" as it relates to them. You mention the X5 is not terribly competent off-road, but an SUV was meant to be quite competent off-road, at least originally. That's where it derived it's "sportiness" from. You mention that was never the X5s intention and that it's the first "drivers" SUV because it had a unibody + independent suspension. The RX also had that. The RX even had a "sport tuned suspension" option available. As if anyone in the late 90s early 2000s was buying SUVs because they thought themselves a "driver". LOL.
Both vehicles were (mostly still are) the epitome of grocery getters. It's really not until recent years that you can even start to make an argument for a very small handful of SUVs as having entered that "drivers" segment. If an "enthusiast" opted for an X5 over say an E46 wagon at the time, I'd assume their wife made the final decision or that they're not actually an enthusiast.
Anyways, this has gone way off subject at this point.
I don't think I'm mistaken so much as you simply seem to have a different definition of what an SUVs purpose is/was and the meaning of "sporty" as it relates to them.
Fair enough. In fact when BMW released it, they tried to coin a new term - SAV - which is just as silly, frankly. For enthusiasts, sport usually means motorsport, racing, etc. Not baseball and soccer, as in mom driving me to practice, which is how they're used today.
With regards to RX, maybe. That was a compact if I'm not mistaken, so doesn't necessarily align, but if driving enthusiasts were buying them, that's news to me.
With regards to driver's segment - I'll have to disagree again. The early X5s with the V8 were legit - esp once the 4.8 came out. They had a substantial, enthusiastic following, and were the early garage mates of 911s, before Cayenne came out.
Anyway - sorry for taking the last word. Feel free to reply again and I won't respond. :P
11-19-2021, 01:22 PM
992 SAFARI
