pinetree3

Original Post (Update at end of post):
I was lazy and did not hook up my CTEK battery tender and the car hasn't been driven for ~2 months, but weather has been warm (live in Toronto). Last week I was still able to get in the car ie. door was unlocking with key and pop the frunk to start to connect the battery tender. I was doing a permanent setup and had to go buy the M6 nut, so I was not able to connect the battery tender.

Literally minutes before I was about to connect the battery, the car alarm randomly went on and then afterwards, it appears the battery is completely dead (key did not work, cannot open door). I proceeded to hardwire the pigtail comfort connector and plugged in the CTEK. Not surprised, it wouldn't charge, so I followed the hold RESET button for 10 seconds to take it out of UVP (under voltage protection). However, it did not work and after several tries, I switched to just use the alligator connectors instead hoping it's just the pigtail connector issue. However, same thing and now it appears my lithium ion battery is completely dead.

Context: 2 year old car, driven in ~8-9 months of the year, 10k km / year

Questions:
1. Has anyone ever experienced the car alarm going off to signal the battery died?
2. Doesn't the Lithium Ion battery have UVP that would prevent it from going completely dead?
3. If completely dead, can this battery be saved via jump + CTEK to recharge?
4. If not, is it covered under warranty?

Thanks!

Update:
I had a friend bring over a Noco GB40 and @drcollie suggestion worked. We connected the booster and nothing happened, so we pressed the exclamation mark button a few times and the battery and car came back to life. Left it to "charge" for a few more minutes before disconnecting and switching over to the CTEK trickle charger. The CTEK immediately detected the battery and went into stage 2. Fingers crossed it'll continue all the way to the last stage in which I'll disconnect and hardwire the pigtail connector (it's on alligator clamps right now) for convenience.

mikey94025

In Canada do you also get complimentary Porsche Roadside Assistance service? If yes call them and see if they can get it working. Yes, they contract it out to local companies but they can and should be able to restore your Porsche back to running condition or else escalate to someone who can (dealership). It is, after all, the point of roadside assistance.

pinetree3

We do, but I think it's only for the first year which has passed for me. As you said, even with Porsche Roadside Assistance, it's contracted out to local guys who will use a generic booster. I can easily get a Noco GB40, but those are meant for lead-acid and not Lithium Ion batteries, so I don't entirely trust random local roadside assistance.

Besides, does a Lithium Ion battery truly completely die or shuts down with UVP?

malba2366

The lithium battery BMS locks out the battery if it drops below a certain charge, the battery will not accept a charge in this state. There are people who can unlock the battery, but the dealer will not do this. There is info in this thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...t-issue-2.html

pinetree3

Thanks, that's what I suspect too. I am trying to see if there is a way to verify that is the case and whether I can use an old battery charger (non smart) that will just charge the battery regardless until it has enough juice to exit the UVP state.

Antigravity

You should not even be close to having a permananat lock-out of the battery at this point in time, being you said it was a few months. In general a quality lithium battery would have a general low-voltage protection (UVP), then a secondary complete lock-out protection occuring in the 2-4v range.... but you battery could not get to the 2-4v range easily at all. Meaning after the 1st level of protection say about 11.5v... then the battery goes to sleep and is not allowing any outside source to use its energy, but inside there is a low self discharge, but that should still take 2-3 month or longer to go to a point of a complete lock out.

With that being said the Porsche Lithium Batteries do have some issues with their UVP protections and we seen several reports of Customer unable to wake up the battery, so I don't know what causes that but probably a funky relay system in their design. Anyway, firstly I would suggest you try to awaken your battery with another battery that is at about 12.5v minimum. Pos to Pos, Neg to Neg..... you can use a lead acid battery from another car in your house and some jumper cables... and all you are doing it trying to wake it up by applying sufficient voltage and current to it to wake up the Battery Managgement System (BMS) for the battery. It should only take a second or two, so you just connect another fully charged battery to your battery for two seconds, then remove the cables and see if your car is powered and on.... then put it on a charger IMMEDIATELY.

A CTEK Charger WILL NOT wake up your Lithium Battery. They did not execute this correctly at CTEK and it does not work. So you need a solid 12.5v to the battery to try to wake it up and it can't be from a Charger because if your Battery is dead the Charger will not put out enough voltage and current to zap it awake, and other chargers won't put out any voltage unless the battery shows voltage. Antigravity Batteries will have a new Charger out in late March/April that will be able to do this and much more... and we are going to finally produce a decent charger for everyone.... but more on that later.

Also note that many Jump Starters, even our own MICRO-START, will have protections that will not produce energy at the clamps unless it sees some voltage at the Battery itself.... but there should be a BYPASS button you can press to allow voltage to the clamps on your mini jump starter and you can try that. But it also should be at lease 12.5 v and some of the mini Jump Starters don't put that out.

Lastly Porsche should warranty the battery if it is only 2 years old...the Porsche Battery is super expensive and should not be operating and shutting itself down so the Customer cannot revive it.

drcollie

Here is what you do.

Buy this off Amazon. This unit has plenty of reserve power. $ 200.


Follow these steps and your car will start right up.

1) use the manual key in your fob to unlock the door.
2) pull your fusebox cover in the driver's foot well. Locate the red fuse with the copper leads on the outside of it, pull it out until it stops.
3) Hook up your NOCO charger to this red fuse. Put the ground clamp on the door hinge.
4) Press the button to open the Frunk. Disconnect the NOCO and them remove the plastic covers to access the battery
5) Hook the NOCO up to the Battery. Positive to Positive, Negative to a chassis bolt.
6) Press the button on the NOCO charger that has the red exclamation mark on it. Your car will come alive as the battery wakes up.
7) Start it, and go drive 50 miles to put some charge in it.

Works every Time. DO NOT let the Roadside Assistance monkeys play with your car, they have no clue. CTEK's will not do a thing for you at this point. They are just trickle chargers.

Antigravity

Hi Dr Collie.... don't want to bash or rain on your recomendation..... but I have to post some facts about Jump Starters and what is actually better. The fact is the NOCO Jump starters are massive sellers on Amazon, great rating, but they are actually not great Jump Starter in terms of the competition and other products available. They are very well made, but really lack real power and key features compared to what is available. But they are massive on Amazon since NOCO is an Amazon centric company. So it not a bad choice, but far from top of the line in price , performance or features.

So some may push back saying NOCO is bigger on Amazon with great ratings and I am just showing sour grapes. No sour grapes because we sell alot of our products also but in different channels, plus we make a product that actually beats the NOCO stuff in every metric, and we are proud of that. We try to produce the best product intentionally. So I'll just post facts for those who might not know the data points in comparing these Jump Starter products.

I'll compare the NOCO GB70 to the Antigravity XP-20 and XP-20 HD

PRICING.
Antigravity cheaper while on sale on Amazon, but more expensive at list price. NOCO about $200 dollar, Antigravity XP-20 about $180 on Amazon.

WATT HOURS- What hours are how big the Lithium Battery is INSIDE the Jump Starter. In other words how Powerful and how much Capacity it offers. Antigravity is offering a bigger battery and is more powerful and can charge you electronics more times than the NOCO.

NOCOs GB 70 Battery is at 56 Watt Hours
Antigravty XP20 is 74 Watt Hours 18 more Watt Hours than NOCO, so that is significantly more Watt Hours and Power than the NOCO. This means the ability to jump start larger motors, or more discharged Batteries easier, and charge more electronics more times
Antigravity XP20HD (Heavy Duty) is 88 Watt hours massively more power and capacity than NOCO able to jump start any motor and charge electronics many more times.

Charging Abilities for Phones, Tablet or Laptops
NOCO GB70 uses the old school MICRO-USB 2.1 Amp Charging to your USB devices. This will only slow charge Modern Phone or Tablets. It cannot charge or power some Tablets or Laptops. NO TYPE C charging at all.

Antigravity Batteries XP-20 offer the modern PD 100w TYPE C charging. This means it charges at the Maxium Quick Charge rates for all modern Phones, Tablets and even charges your Apple and PC laptops using TYPE C USB charging and can handle 100w INPUT and OUTPUT and most Apple laptops only require 85watts. This is a massive factor for a Jump STarter that can also act as a power supply for your devices.

Display
NOCO GB70 Just buttons and some colored LEDs to display your remaining charge.

Antigravity XP-20. Digital Display showing remaining energy. Also if you are discharging or charging with it, it shows the wattage being used or put back into the unit. It also has convienient icon for connetion issues if misconnected. This is by far a better and more informative display than the NOCO

Recharge time. Antigravity charges 3x faster than NOCO

NOCO GB 70 takes 3 hours to recharge and can take a 3 Amp Charge

Antigravity XP-20 has a large battery yet still only takes 1 hour to completely recharge and accepts 100w TYPE C FAST CHARGING.... Charges much faster than NOCO and includes the 100W cig lighter charge to fast charge it.

SIZE - Antigravity XP-20 is 50% physically smaller than the NOCO GB70, yet offer a much larger battery inside than NOCO. Also Antigravity has detachable clamps for much more compact storage. The Antigravity XP-20 fits in a Glove box and GB70 won't.
NOCO GB 70 is 8.8" Long x 6" wide x 2.8 inches think. That is 147.6 cubic inches in Volume.

Antigravity XP-20 9.4 " Long x 4" wide x 1.93 thick That is 72 .57 cubic inches in Volume


Anyway just wanted to post some fact about Jump Starters and how they compare.

Here is a video on the XP-20

drcollie

Point noted. When I needed a Jump Box because my 992 was dead, I originally wanted to buy yours but it would have taken 5 to 7 days to arrive. The NOCO was at my house in 9 hours Ordered at 10 pm, arrived 7 am the next morning. Sometimes you use what you can get your hands on for expediency and to get the car back on the road. Availability was a primary criteria.

pinetree3

Thanks for all the help and suggestions!

Update:
I had a friend bring over a Noco GB40 and @drcollie suggestion worked. We connected the booster and nothing happened, so we pressed the exclamation mark button a few times and the battery and car came back to life. Left it to "charge" for a few more minutes before disconnecting and switching over to the CTEK trickle charger. The CTEK immediately detected the battery and went into stage 2. Fingers crossed it'll continue all the way to the last stage in which I'll disconnect and hardwire the pigtail connector (it's on alligator clamps right now) for convenience.

911therapy

Thanks for the info! I just bought your XP-15 (all in one in appears) on Amazon.

alin2

Can vouch for the XP microstarts as I have the XP-15 (wanted the tire inflator too). Works great.

patel1283

I am having trouble opening my frunk. Any troubleshooting ideas? I have the noco gb70 hooked up to the driver's footwell. I haven't driven my car in two weeks but was hooked up to a CTEK charger. In the interim, I did install the Porsche front dash cam and may have left the doors unlocked (according to the app). Mines a 2023 Carrera T with lithium ion.

drcollie

Your Noco should easily open the front trunk. Check your ground, it iooks like it may be on a painted surface in the photo. The positive around the red pull-out fuse can be a bit fussy at times as well.

patel1283

I used a different 12V set up since the Noco terminals are so close together. I used the LATCH and not the hinge for ground (this was key to opening the frunk for me). Then I used the Noco to start my engine and I drove for 30 mins. Hooked up to CTEK now and hoping it starts on its own tomorrow. Changed the settings on the Porsche front dash cam to shock only so hopefully it draws less power otherwise I'll have to disconnect it.

Is this normal warning?