JRitt@essex

In summary, you don't have to have puny brakes on your Carrera T. We have lots of options that are 100% bolt-on. No other modifications required. Everything comes in the box and drops right on with basic hand tools. You can see a sample installation guide here: https://www.essexparts.com/storage/w...18_radical.pdf

I don't think I posted any of our ENP caliper finish shots above...so samples:

silencei2

Shout out to Rick at @Hinz Motorsport , installed a set of ST rotors and RC1 Pagid pads on my GTS recently and love them so far.

The brake feel and response are far improved over the stock steel rotors. Brake dust is next to nothing compared to steel rotors. Butt dyno says you can feel the loss of inertial mass in each corner.

They are a bit pricey but knowing they can be refurbished and are easily dual purpose for track/road is icing on the cake. Glad, I didn't get the Porsche PCCB and went with STs instead.

Forgot to mention, Rick is a pleasure to deal with and a wealth of information.

20C4S

I bought all the factory parts for the PCCB conversion 6 months ago. Originally planned to do the swap on my first T but decided to hold off for my 2nd T. I've collected all the weight references between the steel and carbon ceramic that I'll post once I started the project. Will be interesting.

Hinz Motorsport

Pricing for the discs is $6957.50 per axle. Total kit costs with pads and shipping are roughly $14,455. With Rennlist Group Buy (min 5 orders) we can do $13.4K. As most of you will be street-driving your T, these discs will last indefinitely and will be noiseless and dustless on the street. If you decide to track the car, the RSC1 pads will be up to the task. The factory calipers are just fine for the power levels of the T, despite what others may be trying to sell you in this thread. The 350mm front and rear ST discs are incredibly capable and will work fantastically on track if called upon.

If you want the lightest, most durable, longest lasting, quietest, and only dustless solution on the market for your Carrera T, Surface Transforms are the only way to go. The RSC1 compound has much better bite, feel, and modulation over the factory iron pads, and can be used on both street/spirited and track. One pad to do it all, no swapping back and forth between street and track compounds. The Touring after all wasn't designed for lap times, so I think a big brake kit is a one-size-fits-all solution to a problem very few will have. If you wanted factory ceramics for all the "Touring-related" benefits they provide and couldn't get them, this is basically your only option and a significant upgrade over the factory PCCBs at that. Customers love these brakes and often end up putting them on other vehicles they own...

JRitt@essex

Generally speaking, there aren't any technical advantages to the OEM yellow PCCB calipers over and above the OEM red painted and anodized gray calipers that are mated to iron discs. Since the yellow calipers are fitted to larger carbon ceramic discs (see the paragraph below for the reason why), they have more material on the lower portion of the caliper to push them out further away from the wheel hub to accommodate the larger carbon discs. In summary, the yellow PCCB calipers are the same as the red and gray Porsche ones. They don't have any technical advantage unless you really love the color yellow They're just designed to sit further out to accommodate larger discs.

Why are carbon ceramic discs typically bigger than their equivalent iron discs on the same model of vehicle? Carbon ceramic discs run considerably hotter than iron discs, and that is why carbon ceramic discs tend to be so much larger than their iron cousins on the same model. Carbon ceramic discs have very high surface temperatures (we've seen a couple hundred degrees cooler on our brake dyno). For example, if a given model of 911 comes with 3800mm front and rear iron discs, the factory carbon ceramic disc option on that same trim level will be 420mm front and 390mm rear. The discs will also have a much taller disc face, and the pad will be much taller as well. Why? To spread out heat. Since carbon ceramic discs run hotter the goal is to run a tall pad and disc face to increase heat radiation. Also, carbon ceramic discs don't have as complex of an internal vanes inside the disc for cooling. There are a lot loss cooling vanes, if any at all..typically just cooling holes rather than directionally shaped vanes. You can learn more about carbon ceramic vs. iron discs in this article: Are carbon ceramic brake discs better than iron?

Hinz Motorsport

This is true with the chopped fiber ceramic design that the Brembo/SGL-made discs use (found on Porsche, Ferrari, etc.) We really shouldn't be grouping factory PCCBs and STs in the same category. The chopped fiber design doesn't allow the heat to efficiently travel out of the discs, since the chopped fibers are running in infinite directions. What sets the Surface Transforms apart from the chopped fiber design, is that they use long strands that are woven and run in uniform directions. This allows the heat to travel to the OD of the disc and less heat travels into your pads and calipers. As a result, STs run several hundred degrees cooler than chopped fiber ceramic discs. This is why we can run the smaller iron-sized annulus' on our new 992 GT3 and GT3RS kits (to adhere to euro R90 regulations) while still getting the performance and longevity we need as compared to running the larger front pads & annulus. This also allows the discs to be very light, the 408mm 3RS discs are 11.5 lbs each- over 17 lbs lighter than the factory iron 408mm disc. Additionally, this design makes the disc significantly more durable, resistant to failure from small chips, refurbished up to 3x, corrosion resistant, and stable (does not warp), among many other benefits. Longevity with the STs is proving to be outstanding, and they are getting even better as ST refines their manufacturing processes with each new production run. These are the best brake discs on the market you can install on your street car and are half the cost of replacement PCCB discs. While not cheap, each ST rotor takes weeks to produce and that is why they cost so much compared to cast iron.

JRitt@essex

We actually do have many Porsche and other vehicle owners switching to our AP Racing by Essex brake kits which are actually smaller than their OEM brakes. The 991 and 992 GT3 are a perfect example. The front iron disc in our brake kits for those cars is 394mm in diameter, and our rears are 380mm. On a 992 GT3, the iron front is 408mm and the rear is 380mm. Why would someone switch from larger discs to smaller ones? For a few reasons. First is wheel fitment. Not only are the discs in our kit smaller, our calipers have a more compact footprint. As such, they offer superior clearance inside smaller diameter wheels. Many times the AP Racing Radi-CAL over a 394mm disc can fit inside a 19" wheel that a 408mm struggles to fit inside...or a 420mm front PCCB disc really struggles to fit inside. We see the same thing on the F87 M2. The factory discs on the front of that car are 400mm, but our kit for that car uses a disc that is only 372mm. Our kit fits an 18" wheel, but the OEM brakes have no prayer of fitting an 18" wheel. As such, the owner can switch to lighter, smaller wheels and tires...which are also lighter in unsprung weight vs. larger, heavier wheels and tires. So, with smaller brakes you get the compound impact of weight savings on both the brakes and the wheels.
In terms of weight, our AP Racing by Essex Kit shaves about 35 lbs. of unsprung weight vs. the OEM iron 992 GT3 brakes, and on the M2 we shave a whopping 40 lbs. of unsprung mass! Our ethos in terms of brakes is that you only need what you need to get the job done, so we calculate just how big our systems really need to be for a given vehicle. For our Competition Brake Kits we don't use discs that are gratuitously large just for the sake of filing up the wheels to look cool. The advanced design and materials in our systems allow you to go smaller and still achieve the desired results. So, one of our kits that runs a 372mm disc can be far more efficient, flow more air, and shed more heat than a more pedestrian disc of a larger diameter.

Also, our AP calipers employ numerous advantages over stock. In addition to only weighing half as much in some cases, they use stainless steel pistons to keep out of your brake calipers and fluid...less boiled fluid= less bleeding and servicing. They also have anti-knockback springs that help maintain a high, hard pedal under all conditions. They also flow more air through the caliper to keep everything cooler...all those gaps in the calipers create a lot of opportunities to shed heat. The Radi-CAL calipers are the dominant calipers in pro racing right now. You can watch a video and read more about their technology here:
https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...-radical-story

Brakes don't stop the car, tires do.

In terms of stopping distances, those are more of a function of tires than they are the brakes. Brakes turn the spinning kinetic energy of the discs into heat. The tires are the only thing that have contact with the road/track surface, and what are actually stop the car. If you want to shorten stopping distances, the only practical way of doing so is through stickier tires. Brakes are all about heat. Also, the magazines are notorious for inconsistent testing procedures, equipment, etc., so I wouldn't put too much stock in their quoted stopping distances for two different vehicles. That would be particularly true if the data for each car was not collected on the same day, under the same conditions, in the same manner. If the tires on the two cars were different, any comparison flys right out the window.

Let's face it...on the T, the brakes are puny. We've sold a lot of our brake kits to 991 T owners. That's because the performance envelope of the car is much higher than the brake capacity. With a simple tune, you're putting out as much power as all the other 'higher' trim levels. What we've seen with our clients is that when the car is prepped with a tune, suspension, or other mods, the brakes simply can't keep up with what the rest of the car can do, and the brakes become a weak link in the chain. Once you get into aftermarket turbos, etc., all bets are off and the tiny OEM brakes are really going to wilt undser heavy use. Our systems for the T allow you to go bigger, without going stupid big. Our front 372mm / rear 365mm kit will still fit inside wheels as small as 18", but they're plenty big to handle anything thrown at them. We have 1,000 HP Corvette ZR1s running our 372mm systems with no issues. Best of all, despite being considerably larger than stock, our four-wheel system still haves 12 lbs. of unsprung weight off the Carrera T. Do they shave quite as much as carbon ceramic discs? No, not quite. But they offer all the other benefits mentioned previously. So, you can have brakes that are far superior to the S brakes on your T, that also shave about 12 unsprung pounds vs. the tiny T brakes...and you'll be able to turn them into a lot of cash when you move on to your next car (see below). They truly are an investment.

Value

One of the greatest benefits of our system is retained value and the preservation of your OEM calipers. Our brake systems hold their value extremely well due to their durability, serviceability, and AP Racing's stellar reputation as a top supplier. Our brake kits typically change hands on the used market for about 65-70% of what they cost new. If you spend roughly $11k on our four wheel kit, you'd typically expect to get $6,000-$7,000 back if you sold them used. That means you can buy them, enjoy them, beat them up, sell them for thousands of dollars, and still have your fresh OEM brakes sitting in your garage, ready to drop on your car when you're ready to sell it. That is absolutely not the case with OEM brake equipment or aftermarket carbon ceramic discs. They immediately lose considerable value the second you put them on your car, and they only continually lose value thereafter. When you try to sell your car to the next owner, the carbon ceramic discs will also be a hot point of scrutiny. How much mass is left in them (determined by weight)? How many miles on them? Have they been refurbished, and if so, how many times? How long are they going to last? Lots of questions to answer...

Our brake kit can truly mean the difference between laying out many thousands of dollars for new/fresh brake components when you sell your car (only to hand that money to the new owner) vs. collecting thousands of dollars at the time of sale.If the new owner prefers the AP Racing setup, you'll still have a fresh set of OEM brakes on the shelf. You'll be able to either factor them into the deal, or sell them to another 911 owner for a handsome sum. If you decide to pull our brake kit off before selling the car, then you can turn them into thousands of dollars instantly. Regardless of which brake system the new owner prefers, you still win.

CJDCREW

thank you both Essex and Hinz on this thread. Very insightful and informative from both of you, I realize both of you have an interest in being here but taking the time to interact, educate, explain and debate (and sell a little &#128521 is wonderful. I am learning some things, which always brightens my day. I feel like this thread has become brakes 101 and 201. Can I edit old posts still… ? Oh well. I have plenty of record of being wrong out in this world, lol. Thanks guys.

20C4S

Rick,

Is there other specific reason not to develop the kit in, let's say 380mm instead of the stock 350mm size? for this kind of money, I would much prefer the added visual difference. Let's be honest, the stock 350mm package looks very weak behind the 20" & 21" wheels.

On a side note, think about another possibility for the kit to work on 718 4.0 cars. I would def upgrade since PCCB is not an option for them (Cayman & Boxster) for years.

JRitt@essex

Lol...no worries, and happy to be here! The way you phrased your second sentence sort of sums up how I feel about my job. As a long-time enthusiast, I really enjoy helping people get the most out of their car at the track, save their hard-earned money, not get stuck with headaches, etc. I've been on the other side of that coin with my own cars and it's not fun. The fact that I'm selling stuff along the way is simply a bonus to me. I get to talk cars all day here and elsewhere, and I am lucky enough to get paid for doing so! As for revising your posts, I'm sure you know immensely more about whatever it is you do for a living than I do! I personally have been tracking/autoxing my cars since the late 1990s, have two Porsches in my personal fleet, and have helped many thousands of enthusiasts with their brakes every single day for close to 25 years (first at StopTech and now at Essex/AP Racing). Being car-obsessed makes going through that process a blast, and I feel fortunate to be part of it.

If you'd like to learn more about brakes in general, please check out our Essex learning center and FAQ: https://www.essexparts.com/support/learning-center--faq
On there we have lots of great educational articles and videos that can help you regardless of whether you're running a stock or aftermarket brake system. We have articles and videos on how to get the most out of your brake pads, how to tell when your iron discs are worn out, whether it's okay to run stock pads on track, etc.

If you want to specifically see some of the Porsche owners we've helped with brakes, here's a compilation blog post we did a couple years back: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...-kit-is-a-must
Thanks for listening to me blather.

Hinz Motorsport

I don't believe the factory iron calipers and pads can support a 380 disc in terms of the caliper/pad profiles. Our ST kits are always designed to work with factory iron or PCCB calipers, to reduce costs and make the installs simpler. That said, many customers often look for solutions outside of our standard kits and will order new calipers to be able to run a certain size disc or calipers. Aesthtically, if you were to run 380mm discs, you would still have your stock 4-piston calipers which may or may not look right so you then would be looking into a larger 6-piston setup. This is fine, it just adds to the cost. Most T owners who are interested in these ceramic discs are trying to eliminate dust and drop some weight. If you want to run larger discs, we can probably pull from our 392 or 380mm 997 Turbo kits and get something sorted for you. I think 991.2 Turbo calipers would work as they still use the 142mm bolt spacing, but would need to dive into it. So this is an option, but for the majority of owners sticking with the factory calipers with our 350mm discs is all they need for spirited street or even moderate track duty.

For what it's worth, the factory iron discs on the 991.2 and 992 T models are 330mm F/R, so our 350mm kits are a little bigger for these applications.

Regarding the 718 GTS 4.0 models, we have front kits available but have been waiting for the rears to get developed since last year. Once finished, we will have kits available for nearly every Boxster and Cayman model (iron or pccb) from the 981 and up (the 987.2 w/PCCB is also covered). These are again 350/350mm kits. All GT4 and 718 Spyder models run 410/400 mm kits.

BED997

Slightly off topic from ceramic brakes, but are there advantages to going with two piece rotors for the Carrera T with standard brakes? Maybe heat management, less fade, longevity , weight reduction or other?

Wilder

@Hinz Motorsport what is the exact weight savings by replacing the factory 330mm with your 350mm?
@JRitt@essex what is the weight savings by replacing the factory T calipers with your 4 pot calipers?

JRitt@essex

Yes, all of the above. Please just scroll down and read one of our product pages for our 2-piece Iron AP Racing J Hook Discs that mate to the OEM calipers (links below). That will explain all the benefits over the OEM equipment. In short, our discs flow considerably more air so they'll run cooler (which also helps your pads, calipers, and fluid run cooler), ours are more crack-resistant metallurgy so they'll last much longer, they weigh less because of the aluminum hat, and spread the heat more evenly throughout the discs due to the internal vane design and J Hook face slot design:

Front= https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...-replace-330mm
Rear= https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...air-35028-rear




Oh...and the J Hooks look cooler IMO...bonus!

JRitt@essex

Our complete 4 wheel Radi-CAL Competition kit (six piston fronts (we don't offer a four piston kit) over 372mm disc, four piston rear over 365mm disc) removes approximately 12 unsprung lbs. from the Carrera T vs. the OEM iron brakes. These are available in the ENP finish or the anodized finish:
Front= https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racing...1372mm-porsche
Rear= https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racing...orsche-911-992

Part of the reason we can save so much weight is because our calipers tend to weigh several pounds less than the OEM calipers. With true floating aluminum hats, our discs are also lighter than the OEM iron discs, even though they are considerably larger. We see this on pretty much all platforms. In some cases our kits are actually lighter than OEM carbon ceramic setups. That was true on the C7 Corvette Z06/ZR1, and we just saw this on the 992 Turbo and 992 GTS...Our largest four-wheel iron brake kit actually weighs the same as the OEM PCCB system, and is far lighter than the GTS iron system (by about 35-37 lbs.).

In short, stock calipers are heavy. When you remove all the unnecessary mass from the calipers, you can remove considerable weight (and gain a huge number of other benefits such as stiffness, easy pad removal, a million brake pad options from all manufacturers, anti-knockback springs, stainless steel pistons that prevent heat soak in fluid, ventilated pistons that cool more rapidly, more resilient finish vs. paint or powder coat...the list goes on). Here are a couple recent photos from our measurement session with the GTS last week. These calipers are heavier than the Carrera T calipers, but you get the idea.

Front OEM Turbo / GTS PCCB caliper


Our front AP Racing Radi-CAL six piston caliper:


Size comparison next to a front GT3 iron caliper



Front 9661 caliper that we use in our Porsche kits in ENP...you can see how much weight is removed from the caliper...even inside near the pistons




Here's what an IMSA AP Racing Radi-CAL caliper looks like...you can see the similarities



Here's the current NASCAR Cup NextGen AP Racing Radi-CAL



Here's an AP Racing Formula 1 caliper from a few years back. You can see where the engineers went completely nuts with removing weight...even every gram of mass around the fluid pathways is removed, leaving just a small pipe to carry fluid between the pistons.





These calipers won the 24 Hours of Le Mans on a 911 GT3...a few times actually (among other major endurance races).





This video has more about the history and features of the AP Racing Radi-CAL: