Tlaloc75

My neighbor kindly allowed me to drive his beautiful silver 997.1 C4S today and I decided to share the experience with my fellow Rennlisters.

Many of you have probably considered buying a 997 vs a 993 or are just curious about how the newer car feels compared to the 993 you already own. I personally was very curious since I had considered a 997 when I bought my 993 but never had a chance to drive one. I asked my neighbor for a ride-along and he graciously offered to let me drive instead. What a guy!

The goals for the drive were:

1. Have fun and stay safe
2. Compare the engine and acceleration characteristics vs my 993
3. Compare the handling and cornering characteristics vs my 993
4. Compare overall ride, comfort and NVH vs my 993

After a restful morning, my neighbor showed up at my house, handed me the keys, sat himself in the passenger seat, and looked at me with a hint of anticipation in his eyes. This was going to be fun!

I started out driving very slowly, to get a feel for the clutch and steering, and to make sure my driving position was good. After a couple of miles I had synchronized my driving style to the control inputs and I was feeling pretty good. First impressions:

• Ergonomically the car felt much more modern than mine
• Clutch uptake was nice and easy to modulate
• Shifter felt very positive though a little looser and less 'mechanical' than my 993
• Overall the ride was much smoother with less noise and far less vibration
• The engine felt more isolated from the driving experience, less mechnical noise and I couldn't feel the engine rumbling through the cockpit like the 993 nor was I quite as aware of the big lump of weight sitting behind me
• The car tracked straight and true with less drama than my 993

Soon we flowed through the first set of curves, a low speed S-turn that rapidly transitions left then right. Its a beautiful second gear section of road that I've driven countless times in my car. In my car this is a little bit brutal, the road has a couple of sharp mid-corner bumps which I feel strongly in the steering and have to manage with throttle to compensate for weight transfer and varying traction as each end of the car hits each lump. Its neck snapping fun that usually finishes with full throttle and my rear end sliding just a bit on the exit. In the 997 I felt none of the lumps. We carved straight through and when I applied throttle the front end washed out a bit so I had to back off to keep my line. "Wow" I thought, that was a big difference. I carved through a couple more higher speed downhill bends and noticed how secure the rear end felt. On these corners, in my 993 I can apply power but have to be careful since they are both downhill and slightly off camber. In the 997 I could carry similar speed but it was much more relaxing.

At about this point I remember the Sport button and turned it on. I immediately felt a difference in the ride quality, not as lumpy as my car but I could feel the road again, every ripple and bump was being transferred to my butt, if not my hands. I also noticed the throttle map change, the engine felt more awake and more responsive. Turn in became more immediate and front end grip improved.

The engine itself felt great. Much smoother and quieter than my car, the predominant sound was the exhaust note. In my car I can hear (and feel) all the mechanical components at work along with intake at higher RPMs and the exhaust roaring at full throttle. In the 997 I could hear the engine spinning up and a great exhaust note, but the sound was much more civilized, more restrained and less ear-ringingly loud.

Acceleration feel is a little different as well. The engine responded more quickly and had a lot more torque down low. My car is asleep at 2k, sleepy at 3k and roaring to life at 4k. The 997 is sleepy at 2k, roaring to life at 3k and on-cam at 4k. The difference meant I had more gear flexibility, carrying 3rd into corners I normally carry 2nd and acceleration felt stronger everywhere. The way the power comes on is very cool but, to me, a little less exciting. I think the smoothness and the flatter torque curve takes away some adrenaline but also makes the engine more tractable and easier to use. I think the added noise and vibration in the 993 makes it 'feel' faster even when it objectively is not.

Next we hit a couple of canyon roads that I've spent countless hours driving in my car, so I had a lot of corners and straightaways to use for comparison. The car was a blast throughout the entire drive, sharp and focused, tractable, comfortable and far less tiring than my 993. I found myself working the gears less, winding it out less, braking earlier and softer - partly because of the difference in how the car felt and partly because it wasn't my car and I didn't want to drive it too hard.

Overall I felt like the cornering forces were lower but the handling was more predictable. The back end was solid and no-drama pretty much no matter what I did. The front end tended to wash out sooner and more often which felt safe and confidence inspiring but not as agile as my car. A typical corner would go like this:

• Off acceleration and steady on the brakes before corner entry
• Stay off throttle and turn in, good grip and solid entry
• Lay into the throttle until I could feel the front start to lose traction
• Modulate throttle to keep the front end where I wanted it

I felt like I was driving the front end of the car with the throttle instead of the rear, which was interesting. In my car I enter similarly but usually with some throttle on. Then I work the rear traction with throttle modulation and generally can exit under full throttle - all depending on the nature of the corner (camber, radius, etc).

As a result, the 997 felt safer and more relaxing to drive fast with less ultimate grip. In the same corners, my car feels more agile, more likely to get my heart pounding and with higher overall grip. This is completely subjective of course and the data might show otherwise. There are a few reasons I think my car feels 'grippier':

• I'm running RE71r tires, which do have more outright grip than the p-zeros on the 997
• I'm running with more camber than stock
• My suspension is stiffer and the 993 is less civilized anyway, so the added bumps and bounces may be tricking me into feeling there's more grip

We finished with a couple of miles of Interstate and I ran at about 85mph both with Sport mode off and on. With it off, the Interstate smoothed out and it was very comfortable - like a very sporty Audi for cruising. With the Sport mode on, it felt lumpy and alive and exciting, even just cruising in a straight line. Being able to switch moods with a button was very cool. On the same stretch of road my 993 bounces more, makes a lot more road, engine and wind noise and I can feel every little imperfection of the road through my steering. There is so much input that it can feel a little overwhelming and it takes a while to settle into it and let the car run vs. trying to react to each thing.

Overall I left the experience appreciating the 997 for the truly great sports car that it is while also loving my 993 for its own character and quirks. Both cars feel like true 911s to me with their own soul and both cars are a true joy to drive. For a long road trip, I'd pick the 997. For a canyon run, I'd pick my 993. For a date night with the wife? They are both special and would work equally well.

Side by side, the evolution and lineage are obvious. Both beautiful cars with similar shapes but one is a grown up version of the other. The 993 looks small, compact and dense. The 997 looks bigger in every dimension, more flowing and modern.

If I were to buy a 997 I think I'd go for the C2 which I bet would more closely approximate the handling balance of my 993. I'd definitely go for the S and I'd go for Sport Chrono with Sport PASM.

My final thought is that the pricing on these cars blows me away. The 997 is 10 years younger and nearly 100k fewer miles than my car and the purchase price was almost the same. Is the 993 overpriced or is the 997 underpriced?

Have you driven a 997 and 993 back to back? If so, what did you think? Were your impressions similar to mine?

soundbehindyou

Thanks for the detail....without having driven the 997, you analysis is what I would expect.

ilko

Every time I drove my previous 993 immediately after driving my 997 I felt seriously underwhelmed, but my 997 is a GT car... It would usually take me about 30 minutes in the 993 to remember that it is to be loved enjoyed for what it is and not for what it isn't. At the end of the day it is a special car from a bygone era. And it can still be made into a very potent back road or track weapon with some tweaks. Which is the beauty of it.

_snowbird_

Great write up! After some DE time with my 993 - which has been a blast in its own right, I've been very curious about what a newer 911 would feel like on the track.

Thanks for this! Great comparison of roads and twists that you know well in your 993.

fsa

Ilko said it well.
Another issue is size. Compared to the 997, certainly the 991, the 993 is obviously smaller in size and proportions.
"Spy" photos of the upcoming new 911 show it to be yet wider.
The diminutive profile of the 993 is iconic, a bygone era, one demanding more driver participation and input.
I never had a rear engine car before. Shortly after purchase, driving fast on a wet, hilly curve, leaves on the surface, I improperly braked when I should have accelerated. The car did its immediate hair raising 360. By luck no cars or trees were struck.
Mentioning to Jeff Gamroth, his reply: "If you don't want that to happen...get a new one"!

Big Swole

Outstanding articulation of your experiences.

Thank you.

Churchill

Great writeup. The main reason the 997 prices are so low is because the M96 and M97 engines have a frightening tendency to grenade with no warning. A lot of people don't want to drive a ticking $12K time bomb.

Tlaloc75

This is a good point and not something I hit upon in my initial post. The 997 does feel bigger than the 993. Although it is smaller than most other cars on the road, compared to the 993 it feels large and more isolating.

The size of the 993 is part of what makes it feels so agile and precise and also part of why you get more intense sensations of speed. Everything feels so close. The steering wheel is right in front of me, the windshield just a few inches further away. I'm almost brushing shoulders with my passenger and when I shift gears I'm hitting his knee. The road is just inches below my butt and the guard rail, trees, other cars all so close. Because of the small size, the tiny a-pillars and the exceptional visibility, the car feels like it shrinks even further at speed. As a driver I get used to it, but I've seen my passengers become quickly overwhelmed.

In contrast, the 997 feels almost normal with far less input, both visual and tactile, to enjoy. This is not a bad thing, just different. For a long road trip I'd prefer it, the car is less of a handful. For a short blast on canyon roads, I like the additional input my 993 provides and don't mind working harder for a greater reward.

Tlaloc75

Yes, this is true and I didn't touch at all upon quality of construction in my initial post. After having read and heard so much about how the watercooled cars are less robust than the aircooled cars, I was pleasantly surprised by this 997. It looked like new both inside and out, its held up very well. The interior showed no signs of wear and all the materials and components were of high quality. It drove like a new car with no rattles and nothing felt loose in the steering or suspension. I know the 996 has gained more of a following but compared to a 996 C2 I drove last year, this 997 was head and shoulders more impressive.

As for the engine, this car is a 2007 so the IMS is of the upgraded design which is less likely to fail - though I know it still can happen. I also know there are other issues with this engine that can rear up and bite the unlucky. When I was shopping for my car, engine fragility was one of the variables that convinced me to go for the 993. I wanted a car I could keep forever without qualms, that could be treated like an heirloom to pass down the generations and that was easy and rewarding to wrench on myself. Maybe 997 engine issues are overblown, but I didn't want to have to worry about it.

PRSWILL

I went through the same thinking before I bought the 993. I really wanted to like the 997- it is a great car and for a long, cross country road trip, I'd prefer to be driving it versus the 993. I too hard a hard time with the IMS issue. Maybe this is overblown and I know the 997's are better than the 996's with this issue, but it scared me.
The reason I chose the 993 in the end is this is a toy. I drive it for fun and some amount for basic transportation, but I have other cars for long drives and winter months. The raw nature of the 993 is just a great experience- modern to a degree ( unlike my old 85 carerra- the air actually works and with power steering and a better suspension it feels better).
The Sounds a 993 make are hard to find in another Porsche. mine has the motor sound package on it and when you put your foo in it, it will roar with that very distinct air-cooled sound.

Someday i'll probably have a 997 or newer 911, but I doubt i'll let go of the 993.

Hilltopper

Have them both and will never sell the 993.

JM993

Look closer.

The 997 (especially the .1) is basically a tarted up 996. Aside from the IMS issues Churchill identifed (along with cracked heads, hydrolock, D chunk and so-on, there's lots of cheap plastic all over the car, it's just better hidden and in a more attractive package than the 996. A few of the many examples:

1. Plastic cover between wipers and cowl. Similar cheap piece as used on the 996 which fades over time and looks awful
2. Plastic underneath dashboard.
3. Console in hard plastic with painted surface which typically peels/chips.
4. Cheap/flimsy feeling hand brake lever.
5. Cheap cable shifter. The is understandable on the Boxster and Cayman in which the transmission is behind the engine. However, there's no excuse for this in a 911.
6. Tons of cheap plastic hoses/connectors on the engine which of course get brittle with age and break.
7. Cheap looking gauges. I especially dislike the speedo with it 25 mph increments.

Thanks Toyota!

goofballdeluxe

Yeah, I gotta say this is my main gripe with the 997s I've driven; the car is plastic fantastic everywhere, and cheap plastic to boot.

When the Japanese schooled Porsche on how to make the 911 series less expensively with the then new water cooled 911s, the Germans forgot that cheap plastic everywhere might be fine in a Toyota, but not a car that Porsche was charging $100K+ for when new.

geldgrube

Great write-up.
Even greater neighbor!
How about getting your neighbor to drive your 993 and provide HIS perspective on things?

Tlaloc75

I did notice some of these plastics but didn't see any early wear. I think it was a well taken care of example.

The speedometer took me a while to get used to, the gauge is basically unusable so the digital readout is what I would look at.