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Very interested on this. I use Mobil 1 V-Twin on my both 993s and I have to import them as they are not available here. Motul otherwise have all its line here available. I understand that 4100 is not even 100% synthetic, is that right?
I found some Dynamic Wear Test data under load on the oils discussed in this tread. Apparently, this test measures the oil’s capacity to sustain stress under load at 230 (F) and quantifies it in PSI. Just sharing what I found on another motor oil information site.
105,000 to 120,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection.
90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection.
75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection
0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi
5W30 Motul 300V Ester Core 4T Racing Oil, synthetic = 112,464 psi
10W30 Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil synthetic = 97,118 psi
10W40 Mobil 1 Racing 4T, four stroke Motorcycle oil, synthetic = 93,661 psi
5W50 Mobil 1, API SN, synthetic = 86,456 psi
20W50 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 83,487 psi
Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 Nitro 70 Racing Oil semi-synthetic = 72,003 psi
15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
Very interested on this. I use Mobil 1 V-Twin on my both 993s and I have to import them as they are not available here. Motul otherwise have all its line here available. I understand that 4100 is not even 100% synthetic, is that right?
The easiest way to put this is- 4100/6100 oils are synthetics that feature a proprietary synthetic formula called Technosynthese. 8100 oils are part of our 100% synthetic offering. Think of it like 4100/6100 as a lower tier synthetic vs 8100 but still a synthetic.
I found some Dynamic Wear Test data under load on the oils discussed in this tread. Apparently, this test measures the oil’s capacity to sustain stress under load at 230 (F) and quantifies it in PSI. Just sharing what I found on another motor oil information site.
105,000 to 120,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection.
90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection.
75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection
0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi
5W30 Motul 300V Ester Core 4T Racing Oil, synthetic = 112,464 psi
10W30 Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil synthetic = 97,118 psi
10W40 Mobil 1 Racing 4T, four stroke Motorcycle oil, synthetic = 93,661 psi
5W50 Mobil 1, API SN, synthetic = 86,456 psi
20W50 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 83,487 psi
Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 Nitro 70 Racing Oil semi-synthetic = 72,003 psi
15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
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I'm somewhat aware of this "blog" and these results- while the intensity of the work I can appreciate, without really knowing the test conditions and equipment used it's a little open for interpretation, that and the lack of industry standard methods not recognized officially by the ACEA, API or JASO- a lot of it seems to be theory based. My main issue with the results posted is that our somewhat low in viscosity 5W30 and on the brink of being a low HTHS oil, is compared being to many 10W40+ oils with a much different formulation philosophy (high viscosity, high HTHS etc). That being said, our 5W30 with a lower HTHS and lower viscosity than all of the oils tested, ranked near the top of this test specifically. Even though we were at a disadvantage, 300V performed admirably and is a testament to the product itself. I'm willing to bet if our 0W40 or higher viscosity oils were tested, the results would have been even more encouraging due to closer formulation similarities. -Nick
Quick question- Looking at 300v 15-50 and only finding the motorcycle one for sale- what's the difference between the two and where can I purchase?
Thanks!
Quick question- Looking at 300v 15-50 and only finding the motorcycle one for sale- what's the difference between the two and where can I purchase?
Thanks!
Hello,
Please search for the “Motul 300V Competition 15W50.” It will come in a 2 liter chrome metal canister. The motorcycle product will have a bike on it and in a plastic black bottle. You can purchase it from Summit Racing, Rally Sport Direct and EDO Performance- those are what come immediately to mind. If you live in Georgia, I'm fairly certain Goldcrest Motorsportrs carries the entire Motul line as well.
The differences are many but the main benefit to the automotive product vs the motorcycle product is that the automotive oil will have WAY more moly/friction modifier in it for more power potential and increased engine component efficiency. The bike oil doesn’t have as much due to wet clutch configurations- the clutch will slip with too much moly. A car obviously doesn’t have this issue. Hope that clarifies it. -Nick
here's a motul 300v competition, 1st column, vs mobil 1, 2nd column
both 15w50 used in the same engine for 8.5 track days each, no street miles.
there was zero noticeable difference between the oils when driving the car.
the big difference is motul is 3x more expensive retail, 7x more expensive if using the mobil rebate.
motul has more molybdenum and calcium, mobil uses more boron and magnesium, just different additive strategies.
the calcium is interesting, does this mean motul uses more detergent?
viscosity is similar and within range so both oils were still protecting and could be used for longer intervals.
we could speculate and say since iron and lead show up smaller in the motul sample it was protecting better,
but the amount of iron and lead in both samples is very small and probably not worth even a mention.
there is nothing robust about this test on a single engine and with only one sample,
it is just posted for the curious.
just reading articles on the silicon(dust), 6ppm motul vs 3ppm mobil.
best guess from the increase would be damaged air filter or contaminated sample.
but how about this, if the higher calcium in motul means more detergent, maybe more detergent suspended more contaminants?
in that case motul is better because it removes potentially damaging particles from the engine.
only a guess.
just reading articles on the silicon(dust), 6ppm motul vs 3ppm mobil.
best guess from the increase would be damaged air filter or contaminated sample.
but how about this, if the higher calcium in motul means more detergent, maybe more detergent suspended more contaminants?
in that case motul is better because it removes potentially damaging particles from the engine.
only a guess.
Hello,
Sorry for the delayed response- SEMA, vacation and holiday's have made hard to get here lately! Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving...
The silicone can be dirt in the sample but with such a short interval it is most likely actual silicone additive that we use as an anti-foaming agent. Air makes for a poor lubricant after all and is the death to oil pressure.
The calcium levels react with sludge and varnish precursors to neutralize them and keep them soluble- so you are on point with your statement.
The most stand out number is the moly content of 300V- this increases engine efficiency as it is a friction modifier. This will allow for more power, better protection of internal engine components and lower engine and oil temps. OEM/API approved "on-road" engine oils will have a limited amount of this due to constraints of certain profiles.
The 300V is also based on group 5 synthetic esters which will improve engine protection and also create more power- +6.8HP, 1.2% vs Mobil 1 (0W40 vs 0W40- Porsche 3.6L). Esters are not based on crude and have many performance advantages over traditional crude based synthetics like Mobil 1. That is the reason for the price difference as they are very expensive to make and can only be made in small batches. The performance differential is night and day -Nick
Originally Posted by Virob
Is it safe to say that this thread is dead and no official numbers will be forthcoming from Motul on zinc/phosphorus levels in their oils?
I do not have the blessing from HQ to post formal numbers but the sample above is in line with our formulation after that use. The purpose of this sponsorship is to bring a level of understanding of oil formulation to the Porsche community- we're trying to change the conversation of "more ZDDP= better" as many factors contribute to a good oil formulation; starting with additive retention and how it is relative to the quality of base oils and volatility rates of a given oil. No point of having a ton of ZDDP when it's just going out the tailpipe
If you have any questions on why that is, feel free to drop a line here. -Nick
we're trying to change the conversation of "more ZDDP= better" as many factors contribute to a good oil formulation;
It seems the response from PAG to the camshaft issues (corrosion) on all of their hardly-ever-driven-models (especially the CGT) was to specify on their branded oils a calcium level 3x (now similar to yours) some boutique oils like Brad Penn and leaving the ZDDP levels as-is.
Nick.... are we looking at 104244 for our 993s? TIA
Yes, for the competition product that is the correct part# for 300V Competition 15W50 2L- silver tin can. This product can also be used on 1 year drain intervals for street cars w/ non track use that are driven less than 5000 miles.
If you want a more traditional/standard synthetic, go to the 4100 Power 15W50- this product is more on par with the Mobil 1 15W50 and Brad Penn 20W50 in terms of formulation but with considerable upside- more friction modified, better volatility, higher ZDDP etc. The 300V is a different animal altogether. Part #'s for the 4100 are:
1L Part #: 102773
5L Part #: 100273
06-29-2018, 05:39 PM
