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It’s hard for me to believe that a tire that cost 1/4 of a Michelin PSS (or equivalent) would provide any acceptable level of ride quality or grip. Tires are the only interference with the road and to me this is no place for shortcuts - no matter how docile I drive my cars.
It’s hard for me to believe that a tire that cost 1/4 of a Michelin PSS (or equivalent) would provide any acceptable level of ride quality or grip. Tires are the only interference with the road and to me this is no place for shortcuts - no matter how docile I drive my cars.
+ 993...
I tried the Conti Extreme tires hoping to save some money. Wasn't happy, so I switched to PSS. The difference was not subtle, just based on normal street driving. As others have said, tires and brakes are critical, and you don't have to be racing or pushing the limits to appreciate the difference.
It’s hard for me to believe that a tire that cost 1/4 of a Michelin PSS (or equivalent) would provide any acceptable level of ride quality or grip. Tires are the only interference with the road and to me, this is no place for shortcuts - no matter how docile I drive my cars.
In a certain way I agree with you:
A UTOG rating of 150 as some high-performance tires are rated are made from a lot softer compound that will have outstanding grip and initially in some cases a bit quieter.
Any tire with a UTOG rating of 400 such as the Achilles will last a lot longer but will not even be close in the area of grip and initially may not be as quiet due to the harder compound of the tire's tread, it will also last greater than twice as long as the 150 UTOG tire, all things being equal.
My experience is that poorly designed tire tread blocks on high UTOG rated tires are predisposed to cupping and can get quite noisy as they age. I have not had this experience after running on several sets of the Achilles tires.
Price is another matter as the cost to produce one tire vs another is almost nothing, What you are paying for is marketing, "Premium" positioning in the market and likely controlled pricing in distribution agreements. Without these factors at work margins on commodity items such as tires would be so thin that all tires would be made in the Pacific Rim as the Achilles are.
Andy
Guys... this thread is more chock-full of fantasy than the movie it refers to. If you have no idea what the tires do and what the advantages or disadvantages of each tire model is for each particular use case... please just keep your opinions to yourself or put up a bond large enough to cover other's car body shop and hospital bills. That's all folks, carry on.
The UTOG rating is not even close to an absolute. It’s submitted by each manufacturer, as to THEIR stance on how long tire will last/wear. One manufacturers “200 UTOG” rating may be equivalent to another’s 100. Just wanted to clear that portion up a little :-)
I do veer from “N” spec and don’t buy top of the line, since I am not taking car to the limit regularly. But still want rubber that will at least have the integrity to keep car on road. I could not put Indonesian tires on my car. I could not believe QC is involved much, and the “savings” couldn’t justify the fear of driving my car, on tires made at (possible) 3rd world standards. I am presently using Hankooks, and that’s the lowest I will degrade on rubber. Just having the ability to (TRY) avoid a collision, would be enough of a reason not to buy cheap rubber. If you’re sure the car’s never going to be using the needed traction/performance, and car will only see parade/business/residential area speeds, then yes, buy them things. :-)
The UTOG rating is not even close to an absolute. It’s submitted by each manufacturer, as to THEIR stance on how long tire will last/wear. One manufacturer's “200 UTOG” rating may be equivalent to another’s 100. Just wanted to clear that portion up a little :-)
A UTOG rating of 150 as some high-performance tires are rated are made from a lot softer compound that will have outstanding grip and initially in some cases a bit quieter.
Any tire with a UTOG rating of 400 such as the Achilles will last a lot longer but will not even be close in the area of grip and initially may not be as quiet due to the harder compound of the tire's tread, it will also last greater than twice as long as the 150 UTOG tire, all things being equal.
My experience is that poorly designed tire tread blocks on high UTOG rated tires are predisposed to cupping and can get quite noisy as they age. I have not had this experience after running on several sets of the Achilles tires.
Price is another matter as the cost to produce one tire vs another is almost nothing, What you are paying for is marketing, "Premium" positioning in the market and likely controlled pricing in distribution agreements. Without these factors at work margins on commodity items such as tires would be so thin that all tires would be made in the Pacific Rim as the Achilles are.
Andy
If you believe that the cost to produce a tire is marginally different between any brand you are dead wrong. The construction and materials are quite different between cheap and expensive tires. As has been mentioned the quality of many tires are poor. If you want to say all you are doing is reporting the facts, then please report all the facts. A few tires used by you and worked out as a forever tire with little performance ability does not make a trend or anything more.
As the poster said earlier, carry on then but I am out of this price biased discussion without all the facts. Anyone can tell the difference between the cheap and expensive tire and I am not just talking about grip.
Very happy with my Michelin AS and have had conti DWS on my lotus and loved them. Bridgestone just came out with an RE980AS in GT3 sizes so I will get a set of those. I have also had good luck with khumho ASX. However, you can’t pay me to drive a car on “summer” performance tires. Unsafe in rain or cold or especially cold rain. All seasons or snows for me. Thus, the achellies are a no go for me.
Anthony clearly thinks I have taken the blue pill and I will wake up in my 993 believing whatever I want about reality.
It's your car, do what you want but I don't rely on pills to answer my questions
Cheap tires for your car to me is like buying cheap shoes for your feet. You might get more life out of the cheap shoes and spent less but will have nothing but back and leg pains because of it. I go with proper support and comfort no matter the cost and ride comfort is a huge factor as well to me. There are many other ways to save money.
Don't tell me that there isn't a noticeable and measurable difference between these tires. I can easily tell the difference between the PS2, PSS and PS4S. I had Pzero Neros on my Boxster GTS. They weren't bad performance wise but the PS4S's just took the driving experience and confidence to an entirely different level in every way. I disliked the Pzeros for their lack of ride quality and binding and I still find them to be superior to the Sumitomos. The Sumi wet performance reminds me of tires from the 80's which I find unacceptable.
Interesting point of fact and another point for you dual use guys. After just 700 miles on the track the P zeros were completely heat cycled out with 70% tread left. The PS4S's have about the same miles and they are grippy as new with most all their tread. I normally run R7's on my track car but until the engine is built the boxster isn't a bad substitute.
When you think about it if you get an average of 30k miles (just saying for ****s and giggles) and say you save $500 buy buying a set of cheaper tires, what have you saved? .016 cents per mile. Check for the best price on quality gas and you have saved more. I bought a performance car I expect to get the maximum performance I can out of it without any surprises.
Buy what suits your needs and drive accordingly but to believe all tires are the same and price is just marketing hype is IMO not the point or case. When it comes to tires you get what you pay for.
BTW with technology today and the range of compounds across the tread of these latest tires You won't find much difference between wet traction between quality AS and Summer tires with some added grip in dry for summer. Although I don't drive most of my cars in the winter.
This may be the source of your “insight”, but Wikipedia might wanna be your last resort, for quality fact finding. Quick and easy, but not very thorough. Read it! It even states DOT doesn’t conduct any testing, but “retains the right” to do so.
Do you have manufacturing cost data to support this view?
What difference does the cost make? Drive on some good tires (and, no, I don't mean Michelins and Pirellis based on their price), I've listed the specific models numerous times and two of them remain tier 1 today, BFG Rivals S and Bridgestone RE-71. Drive on some excellent tier 2 tires, Hankook R-S4, Dunlop Direzza ZII, Yoko Neova AD-08 or Toyo R1R for cooler and wetter climates. Then compare them to tires made entirely out of brick dust and make suggestions based on experience and, better yet, based on intended use. Not based on pills.
Now, the manufacturing cost. It's irrelevant to both the cost of the tire and the quality of the tire (economics 101). The real money is spent on R&D and advertising. Compound cost is a bit of consideration, but a very distant one. Rubber is significantly more expensive than brick dust, but a semi-naked Pirelli girl is even more expensive. Manufacturing costs are nearly irrelevant in this equation. However, understand this. Expensive tire is not equal to "a good tire". A good tire is just that, a good tire. Because of R&D and materials. And because of understanding and catering to the intended use. And they've been tested and if you care to listen, the test drivers, who are much better than us at it, will tell us what they are and will drive on them, too. And I don't mean TireRack reviews, but for the fear of yet another post being deleted I wouldn't even go there. Read Grassroots Motorsports reviews, for example, not some sales site.
PS. A person who spends hundreds of dollars and incessant posts in BOLD LETTERS for emphasis on finding the "proper OEM radio" for his car then buy these Achilles tires. Guys, do you not know history enough to even understand the screaming sarcasm of this naming? A tire choice based on the pill-induced recommendations... well, yeah, that's a fellow 993 owner that merits respect and understanding as an automotive enthusiast. Carry on, carry on, piece be with you, bent metal notwithstanding.
OTOH, I'm not following my own advise of giving recommendations for the actual use cases. A 993 would look decent sitting in the garage on any black round tires, regardless of their potential grip. I hear Pirelli came out with color tires, that might be the next step, One can chose the tires matching the color of their daily pills
I heard that Achilles makes great durable tires and their tires are reasonably priced. I'mbuyingacompletesetformy 1995 C-4 Cabrioletforapproximately$250.00, freeshipping!! Thankyou pp00830!!
I agree with Nile - you spend weeks obsessing over the radio in your car and then put tires on it that you "heard makes great tires"? Seriously?
For some perspective the Michelin tires I use on my racing bicycles cost about $45 each and weigh 200 grams or so. They're worn out in 1,000 miles. How can a 993 high performance tire be purchased for less than twice that amount?
I guess I could put no name tires on my bikes and spend like $15 per wheel - but for piece of mind going downhill at 40 mph I'd never do it.
09-24-2018, 10:44 AM
