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Not sure where you guys are buying tires from but I spent just over $800 for 18" MPS4S's in my sizes Free shipping and road warranty. The most expensive set I have purchased are the PS2's for my turbo at $1200 a set free shipping and warranty and only because I went with the 285 rears. Maybe spend more time shopping for a good deal than just buying by price. Not sure how you guys can afford to drive these cars if a few hundred hurts the bank. At the age of these cars a thousand dollar repair bill can happen without notice and sometimes multiples of that.
I can understand using cheap tires on a hyundi or Honda but why own a Porsche if you aren't going to extract the most out of it. The Sumi's have decent grip in dry but **** poor in wet and even in the dry don't come close to a tire like the MPS4S and even the Pzeros. If you think that is the case you aren't pushing them as hard as you think you are.
Anthony, Michelins are even cheaper at Costco when installation and balancing are taken into account and when they (almost always0 run their $70 to 4130 off 4 tires specials. Same for Bridgestone, but $70 off is usually only twice a year, around March and November.
Of course, there are no $2K 993 tires sets in the sane world, but it's useless to argue.
I have no problem with anyone running whatever tires they want, but I am always happy to spend money on good tires.
But I would NEVER buy a Porsche that had cheapo tires (Achilles? Never even heard of them!), because I would logically assume that the owner also used cheap oil and scrimped on maintenance expenses.
These days I only use Michelin A/S 3+ on my high performance cars- very good in nice weather, and also safe if you get caught in cold weather. I think for a non-track car in areas where cold weather is possible, they are the best tires, period.
I replace DD tires when they are 2/3 gone, especially on wife's and kid's cars. When the tread is thinner than that, aquaplaning is a problem, and it only takes once to wreck your car or worse.
I can understand using cheap tires on a hyundi or Honda but why own a Porsche if you aren't going to extract the most out of it. The Sumi's have decent grip in dry but **** poor in wet and even in the dry don't come close to a tire like the MPS4S and even the Pzeros. If you think that is the case you aren't pushing them as hard as you think you are.
Nobody is extracting the most from their porsche on the street. Period. Even a 993 has high enough limits that reaching those limits on a regular basis would be a quick way to lose your license or run it off the road. Nobody here is Aryton Senna, regardless of what they might think.
Sumi grip in the dry is fine. I've driven my 3tt with them in heavy rain, light rain, and even light snow, and never felt unsafe. Are they the penultimate tire? Of course not.
I think the point here is that some people acknowledge they aren't pushing the cars that hard. There are other reasons to own a 993 or 911 besides just ultimate performance. The feels, smells, build quality, looks, etc. So if ultimate performance is not the goal and the tires are not so bad that they are sliding all over in normal driving, whats wrong with a cheaper tire?
As for emergency braking, the brakes on these cars are so good compared to the average vehicle on the road, you're more likely to get rearended when you pound on the brakes than you are to rearend the car in front of you...assuming you are paying attention.
Simply amazing.....utter ignorance......ever consider speed rating, run flats versus not, compound types, winter, summer, DOT racing......yes all tires cost the same to make. We all know what color pill you took.......
Last edited by kary993; 09-26-2018 at 02:52 PM.
Reason: typo
Please be open minded. PP00830 informed me that he uses Achilles on his car and they run fine. I am not going to race. I'm simply driving in the city and on the weekends to the beach. I see no reason to spend approximately two thousand ($2000.00) for tires for my intended purpose. Any member is free to spend what you want for tires.
And, if I notice a material difference in the handling or my cars ride, I can always replace the Achilles and try a different brand.
Thank you.
Tyre performance is much more than just about "racing".
Consider how much grip you'd like to have in an emergency braking situation when that extra 12 feet could be the difference between spoiling your drive home from the beach and having a fine day.
Please lighten up. I'm using the Achilles tires to drive around the city and to the beach, 60 miles, on weekends in the summer. I do not race. If I notice a material difference in my cars ride or handling, I can always try a different tire. Feel free to spend what you want on tires, as am I. I see no reason, based on my intended use, to spend approximately two thousand dollars ($2000.00) for tires.
Thank you and be constructive.
As Nile said it’s inpossible to spend $2,000 on a set of 993 tires. My last MPSS set for the 993 was $1200 all in.
What really bugs me though is your inane and recurring posts about being the original owner of your car and how it’s straight from the factory as built and polished daily by little old ladies with soft cloths. Yeah, got it, never driven in the rain or when the sun was shinning too hard.
Yet the tires are some dog**** brand from Indonesia that cost less per tire than a decent pair of bicycle tires. As previously posted I’d walk away from your car if it was for sale on that basis alone. I hope if your $75 tires come apart on the PA Turnpike some hot summer day there’s no family nearby in their minivan to suffer the consequences. Put what you want on your car it’s a free country - but spare us the pontificating about how original and perfect your car is.
Nobody is extracting the most from their porsche on the street. Period. Even a 993 has high enough limits that reaching those limits on a regular basis would be a quick way to lose your license or run it off the road. Nobody here is Aryton Senna, regardless of what they might think.
Sumi grip in the dry is fine. I've driven my 3tt with them in heavy rain, light rain, and even light snow, and never felt unsafe. Are they the penultimate tire? Of course not.
I think the point here is that some people acknowledge they aren't pushing the cars that hard. There are other reasons to own a 993 or 911 besides just ultimate performance. The feels, smells, build quality, looks, etc. So if ultimate performance is not the goal and the tires are not so bad that they are sliding all over in normal driving, whats wrong with a cheaper tire?
As for emergency braking, the brakes on these cars are so good compared to the average vehicle on the road, you're more likely to get rearended when you pound on the brakes than you are to rearend the car in front of you...assuming you are paying attention.
I think the AWD of the 3TT makes a huge difference over a car like my RWD turbo. My MPS2's can't even keep traction under full boost and will spin at 5000 rpms in 2nd and 3rd with 460 ft pounds of torque coming on strong. I had once tried Bridgestone S-02's and not only couldn't I keep traction they hopped all over the place and chunked on me. There is a huge difference in these brands performance levels and I agree even on our spirited rides we don't push them hard all the time although in several of these rides I have found a lesser tire would not have handled the levels we would push the cars too and even my MPSS's would loose traction occasionally, a lesser tire would have completely lost it. I also AX and track some of these cars with street tires. I have a pretty good idea of the limits and tried to save money on tires and I quickly decided I wasted it.
If it isn't for traction than how about comfort and noise. The Sumi's along with many other brands are some noisy tires and IMO offer a harsh ride just like the P zeros. So many complain about suspension stiffness and yet very few take into consideration how much the tire impacts that as well. I enjoyed my boxster but it wasn't until I ditched the Pzeros and switched to the MPS4S's that the car really came to life and brought the experience to an entirely new level.
I use my cars differently than most. Mine are for occasional pleasure so when I do drive them I push the hard and I want the maximum I can obtain from the car even if I'm not using all of it. If I was using the car as simple transportation I would still want the best quality tire I can find I would probably go with something like the DWS which is a great all around tire for the money I ran them on my Cayenne TT for years and they were more than adequate and offered good ride quality. I have been working on my engine at a local shop around the corner from you and me and I can assure you I see a lot of tires being mounted and balanced daily. If you saw how poorly these cheeper tires are made I think I might be able to convince you otherwise. If this were 5 or 10 years ago I would probably agree with you but tire technology has advanced exponentially in the past few years.
BTW the article posted was a nice piece of work for its day but that is ancient history now
Figured i would add that you know as well as I do that braking is as much about tire type, contact patch as well as the brakes themselves.
This very much reminds me of the late 90 to very early 2000s when I (and many others) started paying attention to the incoming glut of Korean and other tires and trying to find that real diamond in the rough. Of the bunch, including many no-name American off-brands, two were found One was Kumho MX and the other, Falken Azenis RT215.
First one was an OK tire by the day's standards (similar to Sumitomo HTR Z III today, I would say), that would behave admirably on the dry street and OK in the wet, pretty bad in standing water. Most enlightened BMW drivers went to it the same way a lot of people went to Sumitomos later. TireRack was full of salivating reviews, etc, etc, etc The typical dutch tulip craze, in other words. Where that tire absolutely fell apart is in it's longer term use. After 8-10 K miles it would become so heatcycled under the normal highway use that, having more than half the tread, it would allow a heavy E30 convertible hop sideways in 1st gear on dry asphalt, despite the 168 pretty tired horses under the hood. Perplexing questions and pics of bent German metal in pretty colors started appearing on the the forums. My first 993 started it's journey from Cali to Boston on MXs in 2004. By the time I got to DC, the car was unmanageable and I pretty much knew why from previous experience. Last 400 or so miles home on a dry and straight highway were... ummm... our beach goer would probably not like that.
The other tire was Falken Azenis 215. That turned out to be a real tire, that very diamond everyone was looking for. Street and autocross people alike wen to it in droves, it produced dry grip and results. It wat horrible in any sort of wet conditions, more due to tread than compound and it, too, lasted for a very short time, dying a glorious death in the name of grip while half the tread was still there. Additionally, it would get very greasy when heated. Again, a tire with compound optimized for grip and without any regard to heat issues.
Sumitomos started to show up around the same time, maybe just a bit later. They suffered from similar maladies, not having the actual grip on top of that to begin with. HTR, specifically, feel extremely imprecise to me, squirrelly in the wet and, as most of this lovely bunch, cycles itself to death fairly early. Which is not a problem if you know of this issue and change them often (somewhat negating the idea of "long lasting cheap tire". But at least you'll have your car staying in close proximity to the road that way.
As much as I hate to admit it, the tire tech marches on and does so in pretty large leaps and bounds. Driving on a 15-year old technology tire today is not the greatest idea in the world, even if it's twice cheaper than a current tire. Driving on completely unproven, R&D deprived, somewhat round,black donuts named after a historical character with injured heel tendon who couldn't walk, let alone run... well, that is so bizarre that doesn't even merit a discussion Other than, indeed, what color pill should be used to combat that condition.
I would NEVER buy a Porsche that had cheapo tires (Achilles? Never even heard of them!), because I would logically assume that the owner also used cheap oil and scrimped on maintenance expenses.
Good thing I don't plan to sell my 993 any time soon. How do you feel about guys who use their 993 as a daily driver and only wash their car once or maybe twice a year?
I resemble this remark!
Andy
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Achilles is made in Indonesia by PT Multistrada Arah Sarana which was established in 1991. Launched in 2005 and starting out in the replacement industry, Achilles has developed a trusting relationship with affiliated companies becoming OE providers for Mitsubishi Motors, Hyundai, Daihatsu, Hino and Proton in Indonesia. Achilles was able to capture 15% of market share in Indonesia and additionally, had market coverage of 89 countries by the end of 2012. As a growing factory, Achilles is committed to providing the best tire for all the markets around the world.
09-26-2018, 11:17 AM
