ClassicAndy

I spammed another members thread with this question, so im starting a new one.

I need to limit bodyroll a bit more than now as I have noticed a few times when pushing the car that it rolls fairly much when it has grip in sharp turn ins. Im happy with the suppleness of the pss10s and their ability to dampen straight on driving, but I dont like how the chassi rolls a bit extra in side. Im fairly sure this has something to do with the swaybars and connected linkage, but I may be mistaken.

So what swaybar route is recomended for upgrading my original 4s/turbo swaybars?
Intended use is for street use on b-roads and canyon carving. Suspension setup now is pss10, new OE bushes all round, ERP bumpsteer kit and slightly tweaked wheel angles. I intend to keep it from becoming too much of a racecar and too stiff so any advice or experience is good experience.
I see that Gert at Carnewal offers the RS sways where the frontbar is 23mm thick with adjustability option over the 4s/turbo which is 22mm thick and non adjustable. Rear the RS is 20mm thick and the 4s/turbo is 21mm but non adjustable.

Is the upgrade to worth it for both front and rear or should I only stick to front sway upgrade? Is there any other things I may have overlooked?
its curently in at 1320€ for both inkl linkage, so Im eager to hear any advice before pulling the trigger.




Picture for attention

User 122821

I'm currently using RoW Turbo sway bars on my Carrera 2 which are 22/21mm. This is using factory M033 springs and shocks. The bias increase to the rear provides a good rotation in turns under acceleration specially in highway on-ramps. One step more aggressive is the RS which is 23/20.

DutchNy

Currently running stock c2 bars but with all suspension components replaced and have very little to no body roll. Guess alot has to do with your suspension, tires and ride height

ClassicAndy

What shocks are you running and are they tuned to the upper scale of their stiffness?

On my pss10s im currently tuned in at 4 front and 5 rear of 10 beeing the stiffest. Its very comfortable but firm when needed. I guess you are on to something there. It might be an easy way to test this by adjusting two click upwards to see if its the damper setting that allows for body roll or not.
Wheel wise im running OE dimensions on Michelin ps2 n3 which should have stiff enough sidewalls(?).

And I that thought I could have it all - in comfort mode!

Bill Verburg

I started w/ M030 suspension(222/20 bars) w/ turbo(21mm) rear then switched to RS sways before going to stiffer springs, th RS setup is way better than the M030

ClassicAndy

Thanks for sharing Bill.
Will stiffer springs make the overall ride harsher on the same damper settings w/ current springs, or will it still be experienced as supple as today, but have a higher toleration when beeing compressed, as in a tight turn combinations for example?

In what way would you estimate the RS sways will perform compared to the m030? Reduce bodyroll and overall stiffen the ride?

DutchNy

I am running KW v3's. I highly recommend messing damping, rebound, and ride height and fine tune to see what works for where your driving.

I personally rarely do track, mostly canyons and some autocross and mine handles on rails.

Bill Verburg

The best solution is to stiffen up the springs, harshness is more a consequence of the shock valving. I run springs that are 4xs stiffer than RoW M030 and yet the ride is still fine. The reason is the revalved shocks. A digressive valve stack tuned to the weight results in a marvelous ride. To get digressive valving and stiff springs you need go w/ something like Motons or revalved Bilsteins

fatmike

Are there any other things I may have overlooked?


Can you tell us more about your engine mounts? Are they original to the car? Could that be contributing/causing the issue?

/

ClassicAndy

Good tip. I`ll do some more testing on the rebound settings itself. Rideheight and wheelsettings are spot on and I would like to keep it that way. If it does not help by setting the rebound firmer I`ll look into revalve and a change of springs as Bill recomend, maybe adding the RS sways if going down that route aswell.

Digressive re-valving of the shocks to car weight is noted. New shocks is not an option as my goverment is strict on control of aftermarket parts for street driven vehicles. Öhlins R&T is high on the wishlist, but currently lacks TüV approval for the 993. That makes it usable for race applications only in my contry.
Can I ask for any recomendations on spring stiffness if I were to go the re-valve route?

Im shaving off a bit of weight aswell this summer so that will hopefully contribute in the total picture of where I want to end up with the cars performance.

Thanks Mike, the engine mounts is new original ones installed a couple of years ago. Still in good shape.

Bill Verburg

You can go crazy w/ springs Cups use 1142/1256 lbs/in
RoW M030 is 166/286
KW Club Sport is 340/625
I use 600/750

k722070

there is some great information in this thread
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ing-rates.html
while gregr has a different end goal, you could use the information to try stiffer springs.
give bilstein a call, ask how the pss10 valving would work changing the front main from 229 to 343.
same with rears and tenders.

of course changing the sway bars will be massively easier, but maybe not as much fun of a project.

ClassicAndy

Thanks Bill, that is good info.
I see that pss9 have 234/300 ref this thread: Pss10 spring rates
I`ll read up some more on the topic tomorrow.

That picture of yours looks like there is almost no roll in your chassi! Looks fun, like a precise cutting tool.

cheers,