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Just one example, have seen others. @dmclassicslimited_ on Instagram has one in flight (they're based in the UK). Not 930's but 993 backdates nonetheless.
THANK YOU. I am SOLD. That Kaege retro is just gorgeous. Simply brilliant. Watched that video and I would say his logic makes more sense than Singer. So apparently it can be done :-)
I much like the idea of a bit more modern car underneath.
The german backdated car is gorgeous... get rid of the plaid interior- yuck!
But do what you want- but your chances of getting a well resolved car are somewhere between slim and none....
The resources? The cost?
What exactly do mean with well resolved and why slim to none? I mean that Kaege IS gorgeous so it can be done.
The cost. If I start with pretty much a 993 wreck and fully restore it from the ground up I would end up with effectively a better than new car for likely considerably less that the cost of a fully restored pristine 930 Turbo let alone a 964 3.8 RSR.
Plus the cost would be spread over a couple of years.
Whoever told you the "tail issue was solved with the 993" is wrong, and that's part of the charm IMO. Learning to drive a 911 fast is a very rewarding experience and different than just about anything else. 993's may be a bit better than some of the earlier cars, but it is still a rear engine rear drive car which may oversteer if you lift throttle mid corner. I don't want to lift mid-corner in any car if I am driving fast. The 993 may punish me where my miata or m3 will generally be more manageable with the mid corner lift.
If you like the looks of the earlier cars better, just buy one of those and learn to harness and love what make a 911 so great.
Anything is possible with enough money, but a 993's fender and hood height are different than the earlier cars, which is why you never see people backdate 993's.
Also, regarding the tail issue -- learn to drive before you hurt yourself or someone else.
I was afraid about the hood height issue. Thats why I started the thread.
Owned a 914 a long time ago. That car did not scare me. Restoring one of those from scratch would be more metal work because of all the rust issues those cars have.
Originally Posted by rk-d
Save the 993s for people who love them.
Personally, I think backdating is bull****, regardless of who does it or whatever generation.
As I would start with a damaged one would actually be saving one from the scrap yard
Originally Posted by tstafford
I’m with the others - leave the 993’s alone. They don’t backdate well at all. GW and RWB both look cartoonish to me.
I don’t hate backdated in general although I’ve learned that I appreciate factory stuff more. But 993 backdate - yuck.
RWB I have heard of, but what is GW?
To me a 930 is nice, why would it be any different if there is a 993 underneath
Originally Posted by fatmike
These are not the cars you’re looking for...
/
??
Originally Posted by 71-3.0-911
How about you buy the car you like, the 964 or 930, and just learn to drive it properly. It'll likely cost you less in the long run and you'll learn a new skill.
Originally Posted by Sirenty
+1. Making that pendulum your friend is part of the fun/charm. Suspension mods and tires can also help tame those tendencies.
What sort of suspension mods would solve the pendulum issue?
Agree that learning a new skill is great but would also learn a lot doing a ground up rebuild/restoration
The driving difference between a 964 and a 993 is not so important , I think it didn’t worth to backdate a 993 . I raced both ‘64 and ´93 and the performance is about the same . So for this season I’m building a 964 rsr clone despite racing my 993 cup , I think the 964 if more fun to drive .....
We only know what you told us about the 964 you drove, which is almost nothing. Consider that these cars are old, and individual examples have wildly varying personalities based on the care, upkeep and modifications they receive. A properly set up 911/912 may surpass the handling limits of a later 964/993 that’s suffered abuse or even just benign neglect. In (almost) all cases the driver is the biggest variable. Maybe the exact specific 964 mentioned above wasn’t ideally suited for what sounds like a very aggressive first drive on public roads in an old Porsche.
It might be wise to spend a little more time behind the wheel of a few examples from various generations before you commit to a 993 backdate.
-Mark
It was a 964 Targa on a test drive in 1994 with the Porsche sales guy next to me. As far as I know it was stock and could only have been a couple of years old.
The corner wasnt much of a corner at all. More like a straight that failed to be straight. Could have easily been taken flat out. I only lifted, didnt break. No accident resulted but all these years later I still havent forgotten. The road was also 2 lanes in each direction. Would not have called this very aggressive driving.
I always wanted a 911 and am contemplating getting one to go with my CD. It is likely going to have to be an air-cooled one (only other 911 I would consider would be a 997.2).
Have only once driven a 911 and it was a 964. Had heard about the infamous tail swings when lifting off in corners. Was going about 100 mph or so, slightly down hill in something I would not even call a corner when 1/4 mile ahead the traffic lights went red and I lifted. What happened next scared the **** out of me (it was not my car).
Because for me lifting off when you go find you go too fast is the natural instinctive/reflex reaction and therefore I would not want to get a 911/930/964.
This tail issue was allegedly solved with the 993 because the rear suspension is totally different. However I dont particularly like the looks of the 993. Nor do I like the prices the good and desirable ones go for these days.
Something older than a 993 if I was to ignore the tail issue would be expensive if it is pristine and you never know how good it really is unless you restored it yourself.
So I am looking for a "project".
To me the best looking air cooled 911s are the 930 / 964 Turbo and/or the 964 3.8 RSR
It seems that the 993 convertibles are the lowest priced 993s around.
So here is the idea.
Get a 993 convertible with issues/damage. Strip it bare remove the rear outside body work and build it up with new 930 rear quarter panels and roof to backdate the 993 convertible to a 930 coupe.
Would that work?
Given the evolution of the air cooled 911s I would expect that the doors, glass and roof would be interchangeable between the various 911 from 1974 to the end of the 993.
But what about the front wings and bonnet can you put 930 or 964 front wings straight onto a 993 or would that not fit? Is the 993 bonnet identical in shape to the one of the earlier 911s?
With all the backdating and resto mods going on, how crazy is this project idea?
There are so many reasons why that car oversteered: off-camber, poor tires, tires suspension, etc. but, most likely, it was due to lack of driver skill. Not trying to insult you at all; none of us are perfect drivers, but some of us have more experience than others.
When I bought my first 911, a 3.2 Carrera, I had trepidation about the dreaded lift-throttle oversteer I had read over and over and over in Car & Driver, Road & Track, et al. However, I took my car to the track and did my first DE. Lo and behold, sure, the car oversteered when you lifted, but so did almost every car I've ever driven at speed, and that includes FWD cars like a first gen VW GTI. The back end of my Carrera came out when I wanted it to and remained in place when I understood how physics affects vehicle dynamics.
You can lift the throttle in a 911, but you have to do it carefully and slowly. Lift abruptly and you affect the contact patches of the tires.
Don't be afraid of earlier 911s, and think about taking some DE courses so you can take this tool and use it as the fairly sharp instrument it is. It's really no big deal, and this is coming from someone who considers himself just an average driver.
What exactly do mean with well resolved and why slim to none? I mean that Kaege IS gorgeous so it can be done.
The cost. If I start with pretty much a 993 wreck and fully restore it from the ground up I would end up with effectively a better than new car for likely considerably less that the cost of a fully restored pristine 930 Turbo let alone a 964 3.8 RSR.
Plus the cost would be spread over a couple of years.
Well let's see if I can explain. How much time, engineering skill, fabrication finesse and design do you think it took to make that backdated German 993?
The depth of resources is immense. And you think you can pull this off in your backyard? Hopefully, not literally!
What portion of this endeavor can you perform yourself?
Just think carefully before you go down a path that you can't get out of....
but if you have the resources, why not?
“Was going about 100 mph or so, slightly down hill in something I would not even call a corner when 1/4 mile ahead the traffic lights went red and I lifted. What happened next scared the **** out of me (it was not my car).“
I have my 991.2 turbo turbo for this kind of nonsense. When I finally get a 993, I’ll remember to switch to the turbo when I want to go nuts.
BTW, the corvette hasn’t been anywhere near 100. And I have no desire to stuff a C4 under it. But I love driving it.
Well let's see if I can explain. How much time, engineering skill, fabrication finesse and design do you think it took to make that backdated German 993?
The depth of resources is immense. And you think you can pull this off in your backyard? Hopefully, not literally!
What portion of this endeavor can you perform yourself?
Just think carefully before you go down a path that you can't get out of....
but if you have the resources, why not?
Obviously I dont have the resources Kaege has at his disposal but I would also not mess with carbon fiber or do a lot of custom design stuff. Neither to the exterior or the interior. I would use standard Porsche fenders, roof, 1/4 panels etc.
The metal work I would need help with. Stripping and rebuilding the car I can do myself. Time I should have plenty
IMO your reasoning is seriously flawed, not driving a car because you are afraid the "back end will come around on you"??????
but
yes, your proposed plan is doable.
have at it.
I hope you have significant financial resources.
If you want a backdated wide fendered 911, I suggest you contact the guys from The RSR Project. It will probably be cheaper and will for sure be better built than the franken-car you are thinking about
04-17-2021, 11:54 AM
https://flatsixes.com/cars/tuned-por...ackdating-993/.
