When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Could someone please help me with some Targa questions?
1) My sunshade is making a pop noise at a certain point in the rail on the driver's side. I just saw that the arm popped out and I put it back in. I presume I need to replace the arm and the plastic rail? Maybe this rail and this arm lever thing? I made a video
2) Water seems to get under this seal that looks loose. Do I need to use some sealer to stick it back down/seal it?
3) There is a leak that was dripping on to the back seats. I poured some water on top and it seemed to drip from the sides, but not on the seats. I found this TSB about water leaks here. Looks like the previous owner added some gasket stuff at the edges. Should I try to add some more gasket to the sides? I presume if that does not work I should replace 4 and 3?
The window seals on these cars are a major point of fault and they need to be replaced, and the under-channel filled in, by a shop. It’s a window-out service. You will probably find some rust, too.
I can't speak to the sunshade issues, as mine hasn't had a problem yet. I have seen some strange leaks though. The big picture is that the targa roof is just like a big sunroof in that it is not designed to perfectly seal. Instead, it channels water to drains in a controlled way. I've seen leaks occur when either the drains are clogged/restricted, or the volume of incoming water is too great for the drains to deal with. This is really no different than any car with a sunroof and clogged drains.
The way to test the drains is to introduce water to the top of the extruded aluminum rails. These are the main water channels. From there the water should go to drains at each end of each rail. The front drain is actually the hollow door weatherstripping (very cool reuse by the engineers). You'll see the water exit a hole in the bottom of the weatherstripping. The rear goes into a tube. I can't remember exactly where it exits the car.
If the water you pour onto the aluminum rail does not exit the car and ends up in the cabin, then you have a problem with your drains.
If it does exit, then you probably have a roof panel that is out of adjustment and is letting in too much water for the drains to deal with.
I wouldn't try to solve this with extra gasket material unless you have a seal that is visibly damaged and you are repairing the specific damage.
Edit - I just saw your video on the water ingress. - This looks totally normal to me especially if just a few drips. The water looks to be dripping on to the channel as designed and will be carried out of the cabin by the drain at the base of the rail.
I can't speak to the sunshade issues, as mine hasn't had a problem yet. I have seen some strange leaks though. The big picture is that the targa roof is just like a big sunroof in that it is not designed to perfectly seal. Instead, it channels water to drains in a controlled way. I've seen leaks occur when either the drains are clogged/restricted, or the volume of incoming water is too great for the drains to deal with. This is really no different than any car with a sunroof and clogged drains.
The way to test the drains is to introduce water to the top of the extruded aluminum rails. These are the main water channels. From there the water should go to drains at each end of each rail. The front drain is actually the hollow door weatherstripping (very cool reuse by the engineers). You'll see the water exit a hole in the bottom of the weatherstripping. The rear goes into a tube. I can't remember exactly where it exits the car.
If the water you pour onto the aluminum rail does not exit the car and ends up in the cabin, then you have a problem with your drains.
If it does exit, then you probably have a roof panel that is out of adjustment and is letting in too much water for the drains to deal with.
I wouldn't try to solve this with extra gasket material unless you have a seal that is visibly damaged and you are repairing the specific damage.
Edit - I just saw your video on the water ingress. - This looks totally normal to me especially if just a few drips. The water looks to be dripping on to the channel as designed and will be carried out of the cabin by the drain at the base of the rail.
Thanks! Never knew water was meant to drip inside the car to be channeled out, how interesting!
The lever popped out and I popped it back in. I presume it is the rail and/or the knock out lever thing? Thanks again
i am experiencing the exact same issue at the moment. my lever thing is permanently popped out from the rail, still works but just doesn't seem right hense some rattling noises when i go over bumps.
please post any updates! looking forward to finding a solution
Sorry it's taking me a while before responding, as I had a busy summer and haven't been on Rennlist much.
Let me address the shade, which I consider the weakest mechanism of the whole 993 targa top mechanism.
Regarding the shading clicking with movement as stated here ...
Originally Posted by Leon Dickinson
Hi,
1) My sunshade is making a pop noise at a certain point in the rail on the driver's side. I just saw that the arm popped out and I put it back in. I presume I need to replace the arm and the plastic rail? Maybe this rail and this arm lever thing?
Thanks!!
Yes, it appears that your clicking with shade operation is partly what you diagnosed on your own and by others in the thread. The "knock out lever" (aka "pull bow") is made of a malleable metal which unfortunately bends over time with use. The deformation of these parts, as well as the other malleable metal parts known as the "supporting bows" (less likely the cause but can also bend) can become a source of a whole bunch of problems and, if not fixed, can lead to other things breaking down the road.
What happens is that the bows can bend at the hook-end of the knock-out lever (it actually twists along the long axis) and at the pins on the supporting bows (they bend so they are no longer a true 90 degrees to the main part). See both parts here:
Both of these parts can cause the riding pins in the center of the knock-out levers to slip out of their "gate guides" (# 993-562-559-00 and #993-562-560-00). If you don't repair or replace these bent knock-out levers and/or supporting bows, the guide pins will eventually destroy these gate guides which can further lead to bending of the shade metal rails (#993-562-541-00 and #993-562-542-00) which holds the shade and can then pop down and out of place.
Compared to the shade mechanism, the glass top of the targa is actually quite durable as long as it is properly maintained with cleaning and some dry silicone lubricant (DO NOT ADD ANY WET GREASE OR LUBRICANT TO ANY PARTS OF THE TARGA TOP. This can cause a whole slew of other problems). It's also best to operate the targa top (glass and shade) while the car is not moving so as to minimize binding and possible bending of parts.
Hope everyone can follow all of this.
I was considering redesigning these parts to make them more durable, but I haven't gotten around to it. I also had an idea to completely eliminate the shade altogether using smart glass but this takes time and not sure it is totally worth it.
If anyone still has questions, you can post here or send me a PM and I'll do my best to answer it in a timely fashion. Also, I live Orange County, CA and have repaired quite a few of these tops if anyone needs further help.
Wow this is so kind of you! I've bought new knock out levers and railssome new parts and will let you knwo how I get on. I even made a Facebook group for 993 Targa owner if youre interested.
Originally Posted by mgianzero
Sorry it's taking me a while before responding, as I had a busy summer and haven't been on Rennlist much.
Let me address the shade, which I consider the weakest mechanism of the whole 993 targa top mechanism.
Regarding the shading clicking with movement as stated here ...
Yes, it appears that your clicking with shade operation is partly what you diagnosed on your own and by others in the thread. The "knock out lever" (aka "pull bow") is made of a malleable metal which unfortunately bends over time with use. The deformation of these parts, as well as the other malleable metal parts known as the "supporting bows" (less likely the cause but can also bend) can become a source of a whole bunch of problems and, if not fixed, can lead to other things breaking down the road.
What happens is that the bows can bend at the hook-end of the knock-out lever (it actually twists along the long axis) and at the pins on the supporting bows (they bend so they are no longer a true 90 degrees to the main part). See both parts here:
Both of these parts can cause the riding pins in the center of the knock-out levers to slip out of their "gate guides" (# 993-562-559-00 and #993-562-560-00). If you don't repair or replace these bent knock-out levers and/or supporting bows, the guide pins will eventually destroy these gate guides which can further lead to bending of the shade metal rails (#993-562-541-00 and #993-562-542-00) which holds the shade and can then pop down and out of place.
Compared to the shade mechanism, the glass top of the targa is actually quite durable as long as it is properly maintained with cleaning and some dry silicone lubricant (DO NOT ADD ANY WET GREASE OR LUBRICANT TO ANY PARTS OF THE TARGA TOP. This can cause a whole slew of other problems). It's also best to operate the targa top (glass and shade) while the car is not moving so as to minimize binding and possible bending of parts.
Hope everyone can follow all of this.
I was considering redesigning these parts to make them more durable, but I haven't gotten around to it. I also had an idea to completely eliminate the shade altogether using smart glass but this takes time and not sure it is totally worth it.
If anyone still has questions, you can post here or send me a PM and I'll do my best to answer it in a timely fashion. Also, I live Orange County, CA and have repaired quite a few of these tops if anyone needs further help.
Wow this is so kind of you! I've bought new knock out levers and railssome new parts and will let you knwo how I get on. I even made a Facebook group for 993 Targa owner if youre interested.
Replacement of the knock out levers can be pretty tricky. Porsche recommends that you remove all the trim pieces first, which can be very labor intensive and time consuming. I figured out how to remove them with just only a few other pieces taken off the car. But it's kinda difficult to explain in a post. You can always PM me for more details, etc.
That's cool that you have a Facebook Targa group. I confess, I'm not really much of a social media fan, so I don't have a Facebook account. I'd have to check it using my wife's account I guess. Just send me the link.
Thanks so much for the help, I think it is going to be a winter project!
Originally Posted by mgianzero
Sorry it's taking me a while before responding, as I had a busy summer and haven't been on Rennlist much.
Let me address the shade, which I consider the weakest mechanism of the whole 993 targa top mechanism.
Regarding the shading clicking with movement as stated here ...
Yes, it appears that your clicking with shade operation is partly what you diagnosed on your own and by others in the thread. The "knock out lever" (aka "pull bow") is made of a malleable metal which unfortunately bends over time with use. The deformation of these parts, as well as the other malleable metal parts known as the "supporting bows" (less likely the cause but can also bend) can become a source of a whole bunch of problems and, if not fixed, can lead to other things breaking down the road.
What happens is that the bows can bend at the hook-end of the knock-out lever (it actually twists along the long axis) and at the pins on the supporting bows (they bend so they are no longer a true 90 degrees to the main part). See both parts here:
Both of these parts can cause the riding pins in the center of the knock-out levers to slip out of their "gate guides" (# 993-562-559-00 and #993-562-560-00). If you don't repair or replace these bent knock-out levers and/or supporting bows, the guide pins will eventually destroy these gate guides which can further lead to bending of the shade metal rails (#993-562-541-00 and #993-562-542-00) which holds the shade and can then pop down and out of place.
Compared to the shade mechanism, the glass top of the targa is actually quite durable as long as it is properly maintained with cleaning and some dry silicone lubricant (DO NOT ADD ANY WET GREASE OR LUBRICANT TO ANY PARTS OF THE TARGA TOP. This can cause a whole slew of other problems). It's also best to operate the targa top (glass and shade) while the car is not moving so as to minimize binding and possible bending of parts.
Hope everyone can follow all of this.
I was considering redesigning these parts to make them more durable, but I haven't gotten around to it. I also had an idea to completely eliminate the shade altogether using smart glass but this takes time and not sure it is totally worth it.
If anyone still has questions, you can post here or send me a PM and I'll do my best to answer it in a timely fashion. Also, I live Orange County, CA and have repaired quite a few of these tops if anyone needs further help.
Marc Gianzero
Originally Posted by mgianzero
Replacement of the knock out levers can be pretty tricky. Porsche recommends that you remove all the trim pieces first, which can be very labor intensive and time consuming. I figured out how to remove them with just only a few other pieces taken off the car. But it's kinda difficult to explain in a post. You can always PM me for more details, etc.
That's cool that you have a Facebook Targa group. I confess, I'm not really much of a social media fan, so I don't have a Facebook account. I'd have to check it using my wife's account I guess. Just send me the link.
Wow this is so kind of you! I've bought new knock out levers and railssome new parts and will let you knwo how I get on. I even made a Facebook group for 993 Targa owner if youre interested.
For the record, Marc is one of the most generous, nicest, helpful people on this board, always willing to lend a help out fellow Rennlisters with his knowledge (and his lift!)
Since we are being nice to Marc, I will not comment on any of his driving skills here, save that for later! Cheers buddy!
For the record, Marc is one of the most generous, nicest, helpful people on this board, always willing to lend a help out fellow Rennlisters with his knowledge (and his lift!)
Since we are being nice to Marc, I will not comment on any of his driving skills here, save that for later! Cheers buddy!
What Kika said, I agree 100%!
Oh, do I miss those tie rod get together some years ago! 😁
For the record, Marc is one of the most generous, nicest, helpful people on this board, always willing to lend a help out fellow Rennlisters with his knowledge (and his lift!)
Since we are being nice to Marc, I will not comment on any of his driving skills here, save that for later! Cheers buddy!
Originally Posted by f8vr993
What Kika said, I agree 100%!
Oh, do I miss those tie rod get together some years ago! 😁
Thanks for the nice comments guys. I still think my driving skills are awesome. Did you see how I flattened that street sign?
07-09-2021, 01:39 PM
Mega Targa questions!
