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I watched your 3.2 Carrera presentation and it was SO GOOD. Can't wait to see your 993 presentation. Thanks for doing these. No one could do it as well.
Originally Posted by nathan1
I actually would have preferred to use my NB 993 as personally I am a NB fan, however it is currently getting some work done which precludes me from using it. I happened to have 3 these 993’s in my shop at the moment, hence using them!
There are always the debates over the “best” 993, which is just silly. Buy the one that speaks to YOU and let others buy what speaks to them. I have owned them all and for me NB 1995 Carrera Coupe is my choice, but I love whatever choice anyone else makes.
Now if we talk market values, then the market values each configuration differently. I buy what I like first and market value second.
Would love to see any 993 Rennlister on the live Tech Tactics on Wednesday. The topic will not be about values but a "What to Look for" when inspecting a 993. This won't be a deep dive PPI video as our core audience is enthusiasts/PCA members, not shops/technicians, so the basic aim is what should an enthusiast be looking at to decide whether a particular 993 is worthy of further considerations/inspection. I am sure values will come up to some degree, but even though I speak about values often as people are interested, I MUCH prefer to talk about the history, passion and technical aspects of the cars! More importantly, driving the cars is what really does it for me!
As a teaser as long as I can get my bandwidth to hold up in the shop, we will be featuring 3 AMAZING 993's in the video:
993 Turbo "S"
993 C2S Speed Yellow
993 C2S Vesivio
Feel free to let me know of anything you want covered.
Could you speak to why the "95 over later years, and why the NB or the WB, is your choice", after owning all of them. Also touch on the "not if but when" valve guide issue. And why so many owners op for the plug and play swap to the 993 3-spoke steering wheel over the 4 spoker. Thanks
Last edited by vancouver z; 11-30-2021 at 04:28 AM.
Would love to see any 993 Rennlister on the live Tech Tactics on Wednesday. The topic will not be about values but a "What to Look for" when inspecting a 993. This won't be a deep dive PPI video as our core audience is enthusiasts/PCA members, not shops/technicians, so the basic aim is what should an enthusiast be looking at to decide whether a particular 993 is worthy of further considerations/inspection. I am sure values will come up to some degree, but even though I speak about values often as people are interested, I MUCH prefer to talk about the history, passion and technical aspects of the cars! More importantly, driving the cars is what really does it for me!
As a teaser as long as I can get my bandwidth to hold up in the shop, we will be featuring 3 AMAZING 993's in the video:
993 Turbo "S"
993 C2S Speed Yellow
993 C2S Vesivio
Feel free to let me know of anything you want covered.
I'm very much looking forward to this as I'm just starting the search for my first 993 - thanks Nathan! I too prefer the NB RWD 6sp coupe. Back when these cars were new, a friend of mine leased a '95 NB coupe and then when it was up, he got a '98 C2S. He said he preferred the '95 as it was more raw, less luxurious. Have you found this to be the case? Did Porsche add sound deadening over the 993 years?
maybe discuss how the basket handle is the greatest thing porsche ever invented and how anyone who feels differently should seek professional help. lol.
Id agree with Nathan on this one... I love the NB. I thought I wanted a non basket handle yellow or arctic silver with a black interior. However, what I stumbled upon was a Polar Silver / Red with a basket handle car. My main reason I chose this car because it was a one owner car with records from new showing oil changes almost every year and brake fluid flushes. Documentation was key for me and I think the next owner should I sell. I took a bit of a gamble not having paint meter readings before I bought the car but the documentation on it and the fact that it had not been modified was enough for me to jump.
I vote for 95 NB as well. I drove a bunch before buying 9 years ago and opted for the OBD1 and lack of immobilizer for simplicity. Mine is Polar Silver/Midnight Blue
Could you speak to why the "95 over later years, and why the NB or the WB, is your choice", after owning all of them. Also touch on the "not if but when" valve guide issue. And why so many owners op for the plug and play swap to the 993 3-spoke steering wheel over the 4 spoker. Thanks
Again, all 993's are good cars (as long as that SPECIFIC car is in good stead) so much of this comes down to simple preference. I have never owned a 993 Cabriolet or Targa as I am not an open air person (I don't even like having windows or sunroof open) but of course have sold and driven countless numbers of them. I have personally owned 2 993 Turbo's (1996 & 1997), a 1998 993 C2S, a 1997 C4S and 4 different 1995 Carrera Coupes (including one I drove thru 170k miles) again in addition to driving/selling/inspecting literally hundreds of them over the years. So keep in mind my list of priorities have no relation to market values, clearly I know the market might (and does!) have a different pecking order for values.
For me I prize:
1995 because I like the sound and feel of the non-varioram car in the last 1,000 rpm sprint to redline, it feels more akin to my favorite 911's which are the 2.2 liter 911E/911S from 1970-1971. The Varioram cars have a fatter torque curve down low, so for most drivers they feel stronger, but to me seem to fall off the power in the final 1,000 rpm (which makes sense as torque peak happens 1k rpm lower on them). Again, depends on what feel you want, either is fine!
1995 because I like the simplicity of OBD1.
Now for the NB vs WB debate- again 100% preference. I prefer the more lithe look (hence why I REALLY like early 911's without flares) and in particular I don't like how the 993 Porsche did not flare the front fenders in addition to the rear. For example on a M491/930/964WB/964 Turbo Porsche used wide front AND rear fenders, whereas on the 993 as a cost saving measure they only flared the rear fenders. So to my eye the balance is slightly off.
C2 vs C4- I prefer the C2 however I would have been open to a NB C4 as I do like the fact they get 4-channel ABS/LSD/ABD as standard and like the silver brake calipers. The 993 AWD system is very simple and generally unobtrusive in use. On the Turbo and Carrera 4S I personally do not care for the clutch feel as the hydraulic assist feels overboosted and lacks feel.
Valve Guides- Engines wear, simple concept... On the 993 usually (but not always) valve guides are one of the 1st places that show evidence of wear. With that said there is huge variability on this. I have seen many cars that have had guides done early in their life (sub 40k miles) and plenty of high mileage cars still with original guides. For example I drove one of my 1995 to 170k miles and it was consuming no more than a quart/1500, was quiet, made great power, etc. Now I am sure if we pulled the motor apart the guides would be extensively worn, but I would expect that given the miles. The problem is knowing about guide health when buying a car as the real litmus test is oil consumption. Most people are no longer driving these cars enough to really have a good gauge and sadly most owners I meet don't actually know how to check the oil accurately (that is another topic...). So even well meaning people say their car isn't using oil, but they are driving it 1,000 miles/year and changing the oil every couple of years and maybe its 2 quarts low but they don't notice....
Basket Handle- Again, entirely a preference! As a taller driver I actually prefer not having the top 2" of the rear glass obstructed with the later style 3rd Brake light, but prefer the aesthetics, toss up there!
3 spoke vs 4 spoke wheel- Airbag technology was in its infancy in the 993 era, so the original 4 spoke airbag wheel is somewhat visually cumbersome, so many people prefer the less bulky center of the 3 spoke. I have gone both ways. Take you pick.
I feel blessed to have found my PERSONAL holy grail 993, might not be everyone's, but here is what my car is:
Late Build 1995 Carrera 6-speed Coupe (late so it doesn't have the basket handle)
Speed Yellow
Black Full Leather- Full leather is really hard to find on NB cars, feels so much richer than the standard leather
Heated Hard back sport seats
M030 Sport Suspension
Limited Slip Differential
Rear Badge Delete
SUNROOF DELETE (this IS my favorite feature!)
10k original miles
1 owner, 100% original
My dream configuration likely isn't the next enthusiasts, here on RL we should argue less about what is the "best" configuration and celebrate we all own and love 993's and likely have the one we prefer. When you go to a restaurant they have more than one thing on the menu as people prioritize different things....
Again, all 993's are good cars (as long as that SPECIFIC car is in good stead) so much of this comes down to simple preference. I have never owned a 993 Cabriolet or Targa as I am not an open air person (I don't even like having windows or sunroof open) but of course have sold and driven countless numbers of them. I have personally owned 2 993 Turbo's (1996 & 1997), a 1998 993 C2S, a 1997 C4S and 4 different 1995 Carrera Coupes (including one I drove thru 170k miles) again in addition to driving/selling/inspecting literally hundreds of them over the years. So keep in mind my list of priorities have no relation to market values, clearly I know the market might (and does!) have a different pecking order for values.
For me I prize:
1995 because I like the sound and feel of the non-varioram car in the last 1,000 rpm sprint to redline, it feels more akin to my favorite 911's which are the 2.2 liter 911E/911S from 1970-1971. The Varioram cars have a fatter torque curve down low, so for most drivers they feel stronger, but to me seem to fall off the power in the final 1,000 rpm (which makes sense as torque peak happens 1k rpm lower on them). Again, depends on what feel you want, either is fine!
1995 because I like the simplicity of OBD1.
Now for the NB vs WB debate- again 100% preference. I prefer the more lithe look (hence why I REALLY like early 911's without flares) and in particular I don't like how the 993 Porsche did not flare the front fenders in addition to the rear. For example on a M491/930/964WB/964 Turbo Porsche used wide front AND rear fenders, whereas on the 993 as a cost saving measure they only flared the rear fenders. So to my eye the balance is slightly off.
C2 vs C4- I prefer the C2 however I would have been open to a NB C4 as I do like the fact they get 4-channel ABS/LSD/ABD as standard and like the silver brake calipers. The 993 AWD system is very simple and generally unobtrusive in use. On the Turbo and Carrera 4S I personally do not care for the clutch feel as the hydraulic assist feels overboosted and lacks feel.
Valve Guides- Engines wear, simple concept... On the 993 usually (but not always) valve guides are one of the 1st places that show evidence of wear. With that said there is huge variability on this. I have seen many cars that have had guides done early in their life (sub 40k miles) and plenty of high mileage cars still with original guides. For example I drove one of my 1995 to 170k miles and it was consuming no more than a quart/1500, was quiet, made great power, etc. Now I am sure if we pulled the motor apart the guides would be extensively worn, but I would expect that given the miles. The problem is knowing about guide health when buying a car as the real litmus test is oil consumption. Most people are no longer driving these cars enough to really have a good gauge and sadly most owners I meet don't actually know how to check the oil accurately (that is another topic...). So even well meaning people say their car isn't using oil, but they are driving it 1,000 miles/year and changing the oil every couple of years and maybe its 2 quarts low but they don't notice....
Basket Handle- Again, entirely a preference! As a taller driver I actually prefer not having the top 2" of the rear glass obstructed with the later style 3rd Brake light, but prefer the aesthetics, toss up there!
3 spoke vs 4 spoke wheel- Airbag technology was in its infancy in the 993 era, so the original 4 spoke airbag wheel is somewhat visually cumbersome, so many people prefer the less bulky center of the 3 spoke. I have gone both ways. Take you pick.
I feel blessed to have found my PERSONAL holy grail 993, might not be everyone's, but here is what my car is:
Late Build 1995 Carrera 6-speed Coupe (late so it doesn't have the basket handle)
Speed Yellow
Black Full Leather- Full leather is really hard to find on NB cars, feels so much richer than the standard leather
Heated Hard back sport seats
M030 Sport Suspension
Limited Slip Differential
Rear Badge Delete
SUNROOF DELETE (this IS my favorite feature!)
10k original miles
1 owner, 100% original
My dream configuration likely isn't the next enthusiasts, here on RL we should argue less about what is the "best" configuration and celebrate we all own and love 993's and likely have the one we prefer. When you go to a restaurant they have more than one thing on the menu as people prioritize different things....
Only you, Nathan, could give an answer as complete as that. Thank you. Proof as to why you are so well respected in this arena. My sentiments completely. '95 called to me, I just didn't know all the reasons until now. Looking forward to your presentation.
Again, all 993's are good cars (as long as that SPECIFIC car is in good stead) so much of this comes down to simple preference. I have never owned a 993 Cabriolet or Targa as I am not an open air person (I don't even like having windows or sunroof open) but of course have sold and driven countless numbers of them. I have personally owned 2 993 Turbo's (1996 & 1997), a 1998 993 C2S, a 1997 C4S and 4 different 1995 Carrera Coupes (including one I drove thru 170k miles) again in addition to driving/selling/inspecting literally hundreds of them over the years. So keep in mind my list of priorities have no relation to market values, clearly I know the market might (and does!) have a different pecking order for values.
For me I prize:
1995 because I like the sound and feel of the non-varioram car in the last 1,000 rpm sprint to redline, it feels more akin to my favorite 911's which are the 2.2 liter 911E/911S from 1970-1971. The Varioram cars have a fatter torque curve down low, so for most drivers they feel stronger, but to me seem to fall off the power in the final 1,000 rpm (which makes sense as torque peak happens 1k rpm lower on them). Again, depends on what feel you want, either is fine!
1995 because I like the simplicity of OBD1.
Now for the NB vs WB debate- again 100% preference. I prefer the more lithe look (hence why I REALLY like early 911's without flares) and in particular I don't like how the 993 Porsche did not flare the front fenders in addition to the rear. For example on a M491/930/964WB/964 Turbo Porsche used wide front AND rear fenders, whereas on the 993 as a cost saving measure they only flared the rear fenders. So to my eye the balance is slightly off.
C2 vs C4- I prefer the C2 however I would have been open to a NB C4 as I do like the fact they get 4-channel ABS/LSD/ABD as standard and like the silver brake calipers. The 993 AWD system is very simple and generally unobtrusive in use. On the Turbo and Carrera 4S I personally do not care for the clutch feel as the hydraulic assist feels overboosted and lacks feel.
Valve Guides- Engines wear, simple concept... On the 993 usually (but not always) valve guides are one of the 1st places that show evidence of wear. With that said there is huge variability on this. I have seen many cars that have had guides done early in their life (sub 40k miles) and plenty of high mileage cars still with original guides. For example I drove one of my 1995 to 170k miles and it was consuming no more than a quart/1500, was quiet, made great power, etc. Now I am sure if we pulled the motor apart the guides would be extensively worn, but I would expect that given the miles. The problem is knowing about guide health when buying a car as the real litmus test is oil consumption. Most people are no longer driving these cars enough to really have a good gauge and sadly most owners I meet don't actually know how to check the oil accurately (that is another topic...). So even well meaning people say their car isn't using oil, but they are driving it 1,000 miles/year and changing the oil every couple of years and maybe its 2 quarts low but they don't notice....
Basket Handle- Again, entirely a preference! As a taller driver I actually prefer not having the top 2" of the rear glass obstructed with the later style 3rd Brake light, but prefer the aesthetics, toss up there!
3 spoke vs 4 spoke wheel- Airbag technology was in its infancy in the 993 era, so the original 4 spoke airbag wheel is somewhat visually cumbersome, so many people prefer the less bulky center of the 3 spoke. I have gone both ways. Take you pick.
I feel blessed to have found my PERSONAL holy grail 993, might not be everyone's, but here is what my car is:
Late Build 1995 Carrera 6-speed Coupe (late so it doesn't have the basket handle)
Speed Yellow
Black Full Leather- Full leather is really hard to find on NB cars, feels so much richer than the standard leather
Heated Hard back sport seats
M030 Sport Suspension
Limited Slip Differential
Rear Badge Delete
SUNROOF DELETE (this IS my favorite feature!)
10k original miles
1 owner, 100% original
My dream configuration likely isn't the next enthusiasts, here on RL we should argue less about what is the "best" configuration and celebrate we all own and love 993's and likely have the one we prefer. When you go to a restaurant they have more than one thing on the menu as people prioritize different things....
So I'm reading this two and a half years after I bought my car.... but I guess I did OK by you.
I found and purchased in 2019....... 1995 Polar silver, full black leather interior. One owner since new, lived in Southern California its entire life. 16,700 miles. Zero accidents, Zero stories, basket handle (its grown on me), 16 inch wheels (I have them but no longer on the car), limited slip, original everything. Owner was an 82 yo Doctor.
I have put 6000 miles on it in the 2 1/2 years since I've owned it. I drive it whenever I want but am selective to where it goes. I love my car as it looks and drives as new.
I've done some reversible mods that I feel have made the car more alive. Golden rod, ssk, rs motor mounts, sw chip, fister II, removed the bumperettes, prototipo smooth leather steering wheel. All the original parts are packed, labeled and put in my graveyard "inventory". I love the cup II's and Michelin tires. Adding a set of BBS E88's. I'm thrilled with my narrow body '95. It has perfect lines.
Last edited by aircooledpurist; 12-01-2021 at 10:36 AM.
Totally agree. Came across a 95 C4 five years ago in the right color scheme, low mileage, stock, and two previous owners. The fact that it was a C4 which don't get as much love as C2s or wide bodies made no difference. It speaks to me and I love it!
Sorry that tonights 993 Tech Tactics fell prey to some technical challenges, I know Porsche's but tech.... Clearly I need a pro audio/video guy! I also realized the topic is much too large for a live 1 hour show. I will work on putting together a more complete video, should be a fun project! Either way it was fun to do and I always enjoy bringing out some amazing 993's:
No need to apologize Nathan. Your presentation still rocked. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to do something special for 993 fans. So much information. And yes…. Please do the 993 video.
Originally Posted by nathan1
Sorry that tonights 993 Tech Tactics fell prey to some technical challenges, I know Porsche's but tech.... Clearly I need a pro audio/video guy! I also realized the topic is much too large for a live 1 hour show. I will work on putting together a more complete video, should be a fun project! Either way it was fun to do and I always enjoy bringing out some amazing 993's:
11-30-2021, 03:53 AM
