boomboomthump

Is there any guidance around which suspension components one should consider upgrading (either in a particular order or in conjunction) based on typical usage?

Certainly there is a TON of disparate information on here around specific suspension components but I haven't come across a comprehensive "guide" that's easy to reference. I'm sure a lot of this is very opinionated but has anyone come across any posts along this line?


What I'm looking for is something along the lines of:

Street 1: coilovers
Street 2: coilovers, upgraded sway bars
Street 3: coilovers, upgraded sway bars, sport bushings
Street/Track 1: coilovers, upgraded sways, sport bushings, tie rods
Street/Track 2: ...
Street/Track 3: ......
Track 1: .....................
Track 2: .........................
Track 3: ..............................


This is certainly a slippery slope type item. It's easy to look at one suspension component and immediately start mental justification over 3 or 4 more (that may likely be overkill).

Personally, I'm looking to land somewhere in the Street 2 or 3 to Street/Track 1 "bucket". A spirited street driven car that has noticeable suspension enhancements without delving too far into "track upgrades".

The car has the KW V3's, a front strut tower brace and monoball top hats. I believe it has stock sways (need to measure to confirm). I'll also add that I'm running RS motor mounts (as I do consider this relevant to the discussion). I'm considering control arm bushings (not sure which) and curious what else I should consider, along with what things I should never bother with (ie... someone please save my wallet).

KingTubby

Anything Bill Verburg suggests is gospel bruh.

IainM

I went with stock front control arms, RS rear links to get rid of kinetic steering and stock rubber everywhere else. KW V3’s as you know, stock sways. Still dialing in the KWs but new stock rubber is very good. The urathane & monoballs are really only useable on the track in my opinion. Having said that, California roads are sh!te and that’s where most of my miles are.
just my 2c

<edit> when I say useable, I mean to take advantage of the improvements they provide

71-3.0-911

Elephant racing has a good guide for exactly what you're asking. May be worth checking out.

https://www.elephantracing.com/993-suspension-builder/

-Scott

boomboomthump

I've seen this and reviewed a few times but find the packages and information perplexing and inconsistent. Example, practically everything jumps immediately into $8K+ kits covering the gambit of all aspects. Also, they have things listed in the Street/Track 2 package and then if you watch that video around installing it on a 993, the description of the upgrades does not match the contents of that package.

71-3.0-911

Interesting. While I haven't used them for my 993, I called them and worked extensively with them on my 71. I am very happy with the results of that full suspension refresh. It took a wallowy and unstable car (albeit on old rubber and joints) and transformed it into a pleasurable tourer.

Maybe it's worth a call. Super helpful folks.

-Scott

KingTubby

...would not recommend purchasing any items from elephant.... however their site may have some useful info.....

here is why.... brand new rear drop links..... I think they used elmer's glue or something...

Bill Verburg

Dedicated track suspension is surprisingly livable for street use most of the time, it falls on it's face if there are a lot of potholes or rippled pavement and on pavement transitions.

that said mostly RS is fine for th street and also for occasional track use
You have decent shocks, don't know you spring rates but up tp ~600/800 3/in is fine for street and track w/ th e right shocks

1st thing to change out is the bushes, when Mike and I did ours we bought all new factory arms and hardware, RS KT link and RS Arm to get new ball joints as well as the sport bushes, stock camber and monoball toe arms(w/ turnbuckle and eccentric locks and booties, some use aftermarket sport rubber in the camber arm but I'm not so sure that it does any thing more for you, Cupcar has pointed out numerous times that the stock camber and toe arms are already stiffer than the KT and A arm because the rubber bands are thinner,

the toe and A arm are the first to go bad due to the beating they take

similarly in front the trailing arm bush needs to be RS sport rubber, the RS used regular rubber on the leading leg, I did both and it felt fine, I used elephant sport rubber on mine
next RS sways

next 8.5 & 10 wheels either 225/40 & 265/35 street or 245/35 & 285/30 track

The above will be fine for most people most of the time

The next step is full mono-ball w/ all turnbuckle/locked arms in back

Moose

I have GT2 spindles and RS tie rods - new never installed if you are looking...

Bill Verburg

RS wheel carriers and RSR tierods(RS are an improvement on stock but RSR are the best) these are great on a lowered car same w/ solid rear subframe bushes, but only when the car is lowered to RS to RSR height

lcrain

The problem with a guide is that my opinion of livable/comfortable or "track" ready is likely different than yours. I would say mine is closer to the street/track 2-3 range, but that's just my gut.

My car has RS uprights, PSS10, RS sways, all sorts of bushings and adjustable bits under the car. Interior is spartan with buckets, harness bar, lower dash delete, etc. I find my setup to be livable on the street and adequate on the track. Not fantastic at either. Street duty is compromised by the atrocious roads around me and do most of my track work in a dedicated race car with a very high dollar/no compromise suspension/tire setup which is a lot to live up to.

Lately my truck has been in the shop and I have been driving the 993 around every day. I imagine most people would hate it, but I am loving it! I also track mine once a quarter probably and while I feel a better (more expensive), more adjustable shock would yield faster laps, I really don't care. I have so much fun in the 993 on the track.

MB965

Agree with Bill that a good track set-up can be usable on the street. BUT you have to go into that accepting that it will be harsh on bumps and potholes. Smoother roads are great.
I wanted a compromise Track/Street 993 and planned a good track set-up but was too conservative at first shot, so I went through a few minor iterations with RS and poly bushings.
Whatever level you choose it is most important to have the all components working together at the same level. It is very easy to ruin a good handling car without that balance.
My set-up is probably more than you want but it is a reference. From your list I would rank this Track 1.
Moton Clubsport coilovers double adjustable w/remote reservoirs.
600/800 springs
Mode monoball strut mounts Fr, Rr
RS stabilizer bars Fr, Rr
FRONT: RS wheel carriers, RSR tie rods, steering rack reinforcement, Cup Car elec. power steering, monoball bushings
REAR: RSR monoball lower control arm, monoball KT and camber arms, adj rod end toe arm. Solid subframe mounts
RS engine mounts, RSR trans mount w/filler
Turbo/RS calipers and rotors (because that dramatically effects the handling)

The track performance is excellent, very composed (at my driving level), consistent and squats under hard braking.
On the street the adjustable coilovers are the magic to smoothing the ride. I adjust down a click or two from the track settings, which takes less than 5 minutes.
The difference is not noticeable with most aggressive street driving I can do.


And so funny how you talked about saving your wallet...that got stuck on full open when you decided to change color!
Mike

spraguedawley

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I have a 95 993 with 80K miles and stock setup. It is pretty squirrely. Does anyone know of a knowledgeable shop in Michigan that does suspension work on these cars? My local dealer and my local Pcar indie are at a loss when I ask about upgrades. Thanks.

TheFatArmadillo

Metro Detroit or west side of the state?

Bill Verburg

the difference between mikes current suspension and mine is the shocks, he has the really nice, really expensive Motons(Motion Control is the current equivalent) I have custom valve'd Bilstein Cup shocks(nla), Your Kw V3s are somewhere in between. Spend some time w/ them trying different things, The more track you intend to do and the more competitive you want to be the more spring you will want, the dividing zone is probably ~600/80 +/-, Keep in mind that most any of the newer cars stock but on decent tires will still smoke most 993s on track, These are old school cars that demand a lot effort, seat time and attention

stuff that didn't hurt street use, mono-ball shock top hats, RS wheel carriers, RSR steering tie rod, custom valve'd BIlsteins, RS bushes, mono-ball rear toe arm

things that did compromise street use, lowering below RS, 600/800# springs

things that trade life for precision, mono-ball joints, tires

things that trade longevity for reliability, turnbuckle control arms w/ eccentric locks

Both Mike and I went through phases which we outgrow over the years

My car came w/ stock RoW M03, ok for street as long as you aren't too demanding

first big upgrade was to all RS, as outlined above, this is great for street and occasional track use, but I wanted more

then to all RSR, as outlined above, this is great on track and smooth surface roads but I also trailered the car, Mike still drives towing a tire trailer and changed tires a lot(still don't understand how he navigates I88 to the Glen)