89PS911

Hi All,

Background: I am driving my 1996 C2 from LA to Portland. It is my car from Japan and I just imported it. Just north of Eureka CA last night I heard a whistling sound briefly, and then my ABS warning light went on. I checked the engine bay and the alternator belt is gone (found a lot of residue, but not all of it) and it looks like the engine cooling fan belt is also shredding. I am assuming the belt tension/alignment (shims) was incorrect or the belt simply failed. The latter is unlikely since the two belts were new from June 2022 and I’ve only put 750 miles on the car since then before starting this long drive (have driven LA to Eureka over two days). I look at the engine bay frequently, including just before I started this LA to Portland drive, and there was no sign of belt damage and the tensions seemed good. Weather yesterday was atrocious, with torrential downpours from San Francisco to Eureka (my drive yesterday started in San Luis Obispo).

Questions:

1. Have any of you used Hubbards German Auto in Eureka? They work on old 911s a lot and have great reviews online. This looks like my best bet for belt replacement. I don’t have tools with me…

2. Since the alternator belt is gone, and I found only parts of it, where is the rest? Will the engine cooling fan have pulled some through and littered the top of the motor? I don’t see any marks on the cooling fan but I suppose a lot could have gone through there. What are the associated risks?

Thanks.
Jonathan

71-3.0-911

1) No clue. However, any competent air cooled shop should be able to handle the belts. There is no magic in them. Remove shims until squeaking when rev'ing engine stops. That's it.

2) if you shredded a belt, it is highly likely that some was sucked in the fan. More likely that it's down in the pocket by the crank pulley. Suggest pulling the alternator when you get home and checking. Not an emergency if operation is unaffected.

3) Clewett FTW. 🙌

Edward

Bummer, sorry for your mishap!

Fwiw, I just had a belt grenade, and it was pieces everywhere, but there was no bits inside or behind the fan area (I had to replace the engine fan so I know nothing was sucked in or stuck in there). Whatever bits you don't see left probably found their way out the engine area, or in that black hole that is right under the crank pulley.

For the shop, you say it got good reviews so you should be fine with a simple belt change as that's routine stuff for our cars. Have a look at the belt sensor while you're at it: the little wheel that rides against the belt gets worn down and misshaped. If yours is looking bad, replace it when you get home. And so long as he has the correct belts, you really may as well replace all of them and that will be your first preventative maintenance

Edward

89PS911

Thank you both! Yes, quite a routine procedure so I’m hopeful it’ll be simple. My main worry is where all the alternator belt residue went. I found a lot near the motor mounts, anlong the engine carrier, and in the black hole, but not a belt’s worth. So maybe some went through the fan (new fan and housing last year). I’ll check it when I get home. They will order the proper belts overnight. I have belts in my tool kit but I don’t know the vintage so don’t want to use them.

89PS911

Thanks also for the suggestion on the belt tensioner. A new one went in last year with the new fan, housing, and belts, and it still looks brand new and is putting pressure on the belt to the cooling fan.

Floyd540

If you put in a new fan ,housing and belts last year and you just had a catastrophic failure, something is way wrong. Since the shop you are at is known for aircool 911's they should be able to sort out what was wrong even though the evidence disappeared.
report back

GJSPIN

Possible pulley issues?

TakeFour

Check for any corrosion on the pulleys, the sensor doesnt tension the belts!

pp000830

Hi Jonathan,
Premature belt failure may have to do with the belt not being properly tensioned when the belt was installed. Here is a page that discusses this:
https://993servicerepair.blogspot.co...fan-belts.html

Also, about halfway down on this page is discussed the factory pulley update that you may want to consider installing:
https://993servicerepair.blogspot.co...lays-keys.html

Andy

Edward

Fwiw, my 95 has the original pulley, not the updated one. So far, never an issue since 2001 and now have 188k miles or so. When I replaced my engine fan a short time ago (which took out the belt, but that was a fan blade breaking issue) I did notice some grunge building up on the pulley halves. So yes, it is prudent to do two things when you get home: check the belt tension, then check the pulley halves for buildup of any gunk, corrosion, rubber, whatever. I found mine had some buildup of belt crud (prob from when the belt fried as the fan seized) so polishing smooth is a good measure of preventative maintenance. The correct belts at proper tension should last you many worry-free years.

Edward

89PS911

Greetings All. Thank you for the further responses. Hubbard’s German Auto in Eureka CA assessed that the fan and alternator belts were improperly tensioned when installed, or became so while driving the car after they were installed. They replaced all three belts (including the compressor belt) and set the tension properly for all of them. They also found the remainder of the alternator belt that I had not located—it had been pulled under the fan belt and became wrapped around the lower pulley while the fan belt remained attached, though it was sitting a little off center and proud on the pulley and the underlying alternator belt’s remains. They asked that I check the tension again on all of the belts after driving back to Portland OR from Eureka CA yesterday (distance of ~440 miles given the route I took to avoid snow). I will do that tension check in the next couple of days and before I take the car out again for any long drives (which will anyway be a while week given the deep freeze that has now descended on the PNW). I’ll also be looking into the factory pulley update.

Most importantly, I want to give a shout out here to Rich and John—and the whole team—at Hubbard’s German Auto (https://hubbardsgermanauto.com). From the moment I called and spoke with Rich to explain the problem with my car and my time pressure to beat a snowstorm to Portland, to the time less than 24 hours later that I picked up my car after John did the work on it, I experienced nothing short of exceptionally friendly people and excellent service, and enjoyed a few nice conversations about cars and travel to boot. If you are ever in the Eureka CA area and need an outstanding shop to work on your old or newer 911, this is it! And given the experience I had, I’m confident this extends to all the other brands they service.

Jonathan

Floyd540

Thanks for reporting back. Too often we hear about a problem ,discuss possible causes and solutions and then nothing from the OP to close the loop. After all this is titled a "technical discussion " forum. Without the end of the story there is no education. Also it was great to have some true experts analyze the problem, (probably took them 20 seconds) so we had something to go on. Now all of us have a clear picture of what went on and why. Those guys have looked at millions of fan belts on air cool cars. Also it is another data point that the good indie's out there are terrific and tremendous source of information and help. While some of them may be overpriced, they provide a irreplaceable service since these cars are now old and most of the technology and systems are considered "vintage" and no longer taught to dealer techs. Even for us that do all own work, it is still important to have and know a good local indie. Vee belt drives are actually a very complex system and complicated mathematics to make them work correctly. For the laymen, just check your belt tension.

Edward

Hey Jonathan,

I'm glad the shop is a good one, and that they helped you so well ...always good to know of a good indie when travelling, for sure!!

So your belt issue is addressed, you are good to go after you check your tension when you arrive. I'd not worry at all about the pulley update if all is well. Maybe 4 years from now when you are in the engine and may have to address stuff, but if your belts are tensioned well and your current pulley not causing issue, you are genuinely good to go

Edward

GJSPIN

Glad all is well. Highly recommend getting the GATES BELT TENSION GAUGE (KRIKIT).

89PS911

Thanks again All. I have ordered the Krikit belt tension tool to have it on hand. Also a set of belts, shims, etc., just to have everything on hand. I plan to drive this car a lot here in the US. It just crossed 60,000 km/37,270 miles. It is a fantastic car. Much more refined than my 1989 3.2 Cabriolet and just as much fun to drive!