Another Potential Weight Saving. Can Anyone Answer The Question?

Robert Linton · 07-16-2005, 09:56 AM

Is the frame around the air conditioning condenser steel?

3.2 Targa · 07-16-2005, 12:57 PM

Hi Robert,
You 've got a cool project going.

The condenser bracket/frame is steel. I just verified with a magnet since mine is accessible due to ballast resistor replacement.

The Oil cooler frame is Alu.

HTH,
Scott

Robert Linton · 07-16-2005, 01:04 PM

Thank you. That's what I thought but was not sure. As such, it could be made out of aluminum or, if greater strength and durability are considerations, possibly heavier (but about 35% -40% lighter than steel) titanium.

3.2 Targa · 07-16-2005, 01:34 PM

Great..... Don't be singy with pictures!

Robert Linton · 07-16-2005, 02:10 PM

Will post pictures of the new one.

P.S. Pictures of the lightweight oil coolers -- three weigh less the original one.

24FPS · 07-16-2005, 02:12 PM

3.2 Targa · 07-16-2005, 05:07 PM

Robert,
I've been giving the bracket more thought.
I would recommend using Alu since the ballast resistor mounts to the bracket.
Ti. may be too thermally resistive and cause localized heating on the resistor and shortening its life.
Al may be more effective moving heat away from the resistor.

I haven't checked thermal properties of Ti lately so I may be wrong....... Just something to consider.

BTW, cool heat exchangers.

WarpMan · 07-17-2005, 12:18 AM

Robert,
I would concur with the assessment by Scott C. Titanium is essentially a thermal isolator compared with aluminum (coefficient of conduction is about an order of magnitude less). If the cooler were made of aluminum, making the bracket titanium might introduce corrosion issues (titanium and aluminum are pretty far apart on the galvanic table).

Cy · 07-17-2005, 12:38 PM

Scott,

The ballast resistors for both the oil cooler and AC condensor do mount to the brackets. However, as others here have done they can be moved to alternate locations that still provide for heat sink, air flow, and easier access for future replacement.

Regards,

Robert Linton · 10-27-2005, 08:53 AM

The steel frame weighed approximately 1.62 kg. The aluminum version weighs approximately .44 kg. Savings of approximately 2.6 lbs.

TomF · 10-27-2005, 12:11 PM

Thanks for the update. Can you post more pics of your current projects or direct us to a link?

zwoobah · 10-27-2005, 04:45 PM

Sounds like a cool project, but if you're trying to reduce weight, why not just scrap the AC entirely? Are you focusing on minimizing the weight of a full-featured street car as an engineering exercise?

Robert Linton · 10-27-2005, 07:35 PM

The modern 911R -- 2200 lbs., 425 normally aspirated horsepower, full interior, air conditioning, airbags, stereo, etc.

Joe S. · 10-27-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Linton

425 normally aspirated horsepower

Can you share any details on this?

Thanks

zwoobah · 10-27-2005, 10:52 PM

Sounds like an incredible engineering exercise, it's always a pleasure to see the absolute best that can be done in any automotive buildup.
A couple of the more interesting weight-saving parts I remember from recent automotive history are:
-The lightweight head unit that Kenwood developed specifically for the McLaren F1
-The hollow carpet fibers Toyota utilized in the twin-turbo Supra

Best of luck with the project, keep us updated

07-16-2005, 09:56 AM	#1
Robert Linton Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,821	Another Potential Weight Saving. Can Anyone Answer The Question? Is the frame around the air conditioning condenser steel? Last edited by Robert Linton; 07-16-2005 at 12:02 PM.

07-16-2005, 12:57 PM	#2
3.2 Targa Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: TX Posts: 5,397	Hi Robert, You 've got a cool project going. The condenser bracket/frame is steel. I just verified with a magnet since mine is accessible due to ballast resistor replacement. The Oil cooler frame is Alu. HTH, Scott __________________ Scott C.

07-16-2005, 01:34 PM	#4
3.2 Targa Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: TX Posts: 5,397	Great..... Don't be singy with pictures! __________________ Scott C.

07-16-2005, 02:12 PM	#6
24FPS Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: la la land \| comin' back soon nyc Posts: 3,278	__________________ expose your film & drive officialauteurforhey wait for meracing fear eats the soul. rlm 031107-4606 \| rlm 070728-6927 ich was ich

07-16-2005, 05:07 PM	#7
3.2 Targa Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: TX Posts: 5,397	Robert, I've been giving the bracket more thought. I would recommend using Alu since the ballast resistor mounts to the bracket. Ti. may be too thermally resistive and cause localized heating on the resistor and shortening its life. Al may be more effective moving heat away from the resistor. I haven't checked thermal properties of Ti lately so I may be wrong....... Just something to consider. BTW, cool heat exchangers. __________________ Scott C.

07-16-2005, 01:04 PM	#3
Robert Linton Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,821	Thank you. That's what I thought but was not sure. As such, it could be made out of aluminum or, if greater strength and durability are considerations, possibly heavier (but about 35% -40% lighter than steel) titanium.

07-17-2005, 12:18 AM	#8
WarpMan Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Costa Mesa, CA Posts: 209	Robert, I would concur with the assessment by Scott C. Titanium is essentially a thermal isolator compared with aluminum (coefficient of conduction is about an order of magnitude less). If the cooler were made of aluminum, making the bracket titanium might introduce corrosion issues (titanium and aluminum are pretty far apart on the galvanic table). __________________ Yuji "Any excuse for a road trip" 1998 993 Carrera S, Vesuvio Metallic/Black

07-17-2005, 12:38 PM	#9
Cy User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Manhattan, NY Posts: 267	Scott, The ballast resistors for both the oil cooler and AC condensor do mount to the brackets. However, as others here have done they can be moved to alternate locations that still provide for heat sink, air flow, and easier access for future replacement. Regards,

10-27-2005, 08:53 AM	#10
Robert Linton Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,821	The steel frame weighed approximately 1.62 kg. The aluminum version weighs approximately .44 kg. Savings of approximately 2.6 lbs.

10-27-2005, 12:11 PM	#11
TomF Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,816	Thanks for the update. Can you post more pics of your current projects or direct us to a link?

10-27-2005, 04:45 PM	#12
zwoobah User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 127	Sounds like a cool project, but if you're trying to reduce weight, why not just scrap the AC entirely? Are you focusing on minimizing the weight of a full-featured street car as an engineering exercise?

10-27-2005, 07:35 PM	#13
Robert Linton Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,821	The modern 911R -- 2200 lbs., 425 normally aspirated horsepower, full interior, air conditioning, airbags, stereo, etc.

10-27-2005, 10:52 PM	#15
zwoobah User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 127	Sounds like an incredible engineering exercise, it's always a pleasure to see the absolute best that can be done in any automotive buildup. A couple of the more interesting weight-saving parts I remember from recent automotive history are: -The lightweight head unit that Kenwood developed specifically for the McLaren F1 -The hollow carpet fibers Toyota utilized in the twin-turbo Supra Best of luck with the project, keep us updated

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