View Poll Results: Ask users to join?
No, let them decide on their own
109
65.66%
Yes, in public
40
24.10%
Yes, in private
17
10.24%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll
Asking users to become members
08-27-2006, 07:30 PM
#1
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Asking users to become members
I'm curious as to how many 993 board members care about asking people who are not Rennlist members to become members. I've noticed on at least one other sub-board that the users (generic term) noted that the 993 board is infamous for its members haranguing non-members about paying to join. I, for one, would prefer a more open environment where people can decide to join or not on their own without being guilted into it. 
Anyway...
Anyway...
08-27-2006, 07:54 PM
#4
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by LeMarquis
This is going to get ugly...
Originally Posted by John D.
Actually – here are my $0.0002…
Rennlist is huge. It’s diverse. It’s daunting, at times… Look at it this way.
There are 12 servers hosting this site. There are three high-speed carriers (like G4.NET, DSL.NET and Verizon) who deliver a mix of T1s, bonded SDSL circuits, and single SDSL lines – at last count – there are 8 CAT5 cables routed from the side of our home and into our “home office” – which are required to run Rennlist each moment of each day.
When folks post they are “guests inside Jen and John’s home” with Rennlist – that is quite literally true. There are no fancy headquarters – nor “staff” nor “departments – rather – just “you and me”. The “you” are about 225,000 site visitors a day. The “me” is “Jen and me”. Literally.
For that – we’ve been doing Rennlist for how long? Sheesh – we are coming into 10 years pretty soon.. It was started way back. And it continues to grow. In fact – with over 43,000 “registered” to the Forums (and non-active accounts get flushed regularly, so they don’t show) – I think we are larger than PCA? That is certainly true if you add in the other 80,000 subscribed to the e-mail discussion lists. On the Internet – we are ranked about 275th as size of ANY forums are concerned – which far exceeds certainly any other Porsche forum…
Yea – it’s pretty big, by any measure…
And yep – Jen and I still have full time jobs to help support it – right along side all of you. But – that’s our choice.. You see – before Rennlist – there was no club/association “open”, without fee – to every Porsche enthusiast, either in the US – or with the advent of the Internet – worldwide. But, today – by any measure – Rennlist is that “club” to many. My view – strongly held and often questioned – is that Rennlist will continue to be “open” to any enthusiast, as long as they abide by the rules of that same community.
That’s the “principle” of the foundation altogether…
At the same time – JUST LIKE MANY OF YOU – I look at some non-members with hundreds of posts, and wonder why? Sometimes I get frustrated – as Ben has indicated in this thread/poll. But, based on the principle of the Rennlist altogether – I’ll respect and support their right to make a decision not to support this site – as your decision to support it. By giving Members access to special features, special forums, classifieds, 200mb web sites, etc. – it’s my view that the “value equation” favors Members who derive benefit from their support. I also think Jen and I have delivered up a compelling set of reasons to “join” for numerous features..
But – that it my personal view… And at the same time – it has NO BEARING on the principle of Rennlist being “free to any enthusiast”.
So, with this post – I’d also invite you – each of you reading this to think about this… You can not “brow beat” anyone into joining. It won’t work. It never has – either on Rennlist nor for any other organization. In fact – it’s interesting – over the past 3 months, I’ve had more “Member Cancellations” due to public treatment of non-Members than ever before. Sad commentary if that’s how new Members and new users feel..??
What does work is show them what the community is all about. Help out a few folks. Listen to their questions and reply with the same measure as you would to a Member or non-Member alike.
My guess?
Then they’ll understand what Rennlist is all about…
Thanks for reading…
John D.
Rennlist is huge. It’s diverse. It’s daunting, at times… Look at it this way.
There are 12 servers hosting this site. There are three high-speed carriers (like G4.NET, DSL.NET and Verizon) who deliver a mix of T1s, bonded SDSL circuits, and single SDSL lines – at last count – there are 8 CAT5 cables routed from the side of our home and into our “home office” – which are required to run Rennlist each moment of each day.
When folks post they are “guests inside Jen and John’s home” with Rennlist – that is quite literally true. There are no fancy headquarters – nor “staff” nor “departments – rather – just “you and me”. The “you” are about 225,000 site visitors a day. The “me” is “Jen and me”. Literally.
For that – we’ve been doing Rennlist for how long? Sheesh – we are coming into 10 years pretty soon.. It was started way back. And it continues to grow. In fact – with over 43,000 “registered” to the Forums (and non-active accounts get flushed regularly, so they don’t show) – I think we are larger than PCA? That is certainly true if you add in the other 80,000 subscribed to the e-mail discussion lists. On the Internet – we are ranked about 275th as size of ANY forums are concerned – which far exceeds certainly any other Porsche forum…
Yea – it’s pretty big, by any measure…
And yep – Jen and I still have full time jobs to help support it – right along side all of you. But – that’s our choice.. You see – before Rennlist – there was no club/association “open”, without fee – to every Porsche enthusiast, either in the US – or with the advent of the Internet – worldwide. But, today – by any measure – Rennlist is that “club” to many. My view – strongly held and often questioned – is that Rennlist will continue to be “open” to any enthusiast, as long as they abide by the rules of that same community.
That’s the “principle” of the foundation altogether…
At the same time – JUST LIKE MANY OF YOU – I look at some non-members with hundreds of posts, and wonder why? Sometimes I get frustrated – as Ben has indicated in this thread/poll. But, based on the principle of the Rennlist altogether – I’ll respect and support their right to make a decision not to support this site – as your decision to support it. By giving Members access to special features, special forums, classifieds, 200mb web sites, etc. – it’s my view that the “value equation” favors Members who derive benefit from their support. I also think Jen and I have delivered up a compelling set of reasons to “join” for numerous features..
But – that it my personal view… And at the same time – it has NO BEARING on the principle of Rennlist being “free to any enthusiast”.
So, with this post – I’d also invite you – each of you reading this to think about this… You can not “brow beat” anyone into joining. It won’t work. It never has – either on Rennlist nor for any other organization. In fact – it’s interesting – over the past 3 months, I’ve had more “Member Cancellations” due to public treatment of non-Members than ever before. Sad commentary if that’s how new Members and new users feel..??
What does work is show them what the community is all about. Help out a few folks. Listen to their questions and reply with the same measure as you would to a Member or non-Member alike.
My guess?
Then they’ll understand what Rennlist is all about…
Thanks for reading…
John D.
Originally Posted by John D.
And yes - "43,000 registered users X $17.95 comes down to a whopping $771,850".. If we didn't chase many away, and invited all of them to become members, as all of you have - my guess is Jen and I wouldn't have our other jobs...???
Just something to think about....
And again - my thanks to all who do support what we have here.... It is unique...
John
Just something to think about....
And again - my thanks to all who do support what we have here.... It is unique...
John
Originally Posted by John D.
If you are a “Rennlist Member” – please remember, there was a time that you weren’t either. What made you choose to become a Member? Why? Chances are – it wasn’t from a verbal beating, but rather – you wanted to become part of something pretty cool. So, if folks aren’t a Rennlist Member – that’s fine! They will if, they too, experience what it is you already participate within and would like to share that same excitement.
08-27-2006, 08:04 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
It is quite awesome reading about the 'behind the scenes' what it takes to run this forum. My hat is off to John and Jen!!!!!
I do hope more guests find the value given and become members, but I do think it is a personal decision. Just my $0.02....
I do hope more guests find the value given and become members, but I do think it is a personal decision. Just my $0.02....
08-27-2006, 08:34 PM
#7
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I have only asked when I see someone with 100's of posts just get someting of significant value off the site. And then it is only a polite "hope you join"....I am a newbie...but only made one post before I joined...the value is self evident.
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08-27-2006, 08:42 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by jnx
If they can't see the value in joining, would we want them?
For even 500k a year I'll get you a OC192 line and still make you a ton of money... That'll support the infrastructure of a large ISP. (Not saying it's not worth the price of admission I don't want to get flamed just stating a technical fact.)
If people join they join not sure what business it is of others. Same thing goes for religion, politics etc. If you want to make it manditory then make it manditory. It's really nothing to argue about. $17.95 or not it's the people that give this forum value.
08-27-2006, 08:54 PM
#9
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I like that membership isn't mandatory and am pretty sure I've only harangued people who aren't members but want to sell stuff.
I belong to other communities that are free and stay free but have lots of ads. Others (moparts.com and dorkiphus.com) I slide $$ to once in a while to defray costs of these communities that don't suffer from ads :-)
Community and information are best unfettered. Membership should sell itself eventually, or more directly when one wants to gain the $$ benefit of selling to the audience that John & Jen's work has brought together.
I belong to other communities that are free and stay free but have lots of ads. Others (moparts.com and dorkiphus.com) I slide $$ to once in a while to defray costs of these communities that don't suffer from ads :-)
Community and information are best unfettered. Membership should sell itself eventually, or more directly when one wants to gain the $$ benefit of selling to the audience that John & Jen's work has brought together.
08-27-2006, 09:15 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Well, you do the same thing that the captors did to the two Fox reporters and make them convert at gunpoint!
Me, I did it because I wanted to (join Rennlist, that is).
Me, I did it because I wanted to (join Rennlist, that is).
08-27-2006, 10:03 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
I am very greatful for Rennlist. It has solved many problems for me, helped me be more hands with my car and racing, and has been a venue that has given me the opportunity to meet many interesting people. I find value in this website, far above the fee. I think everyone should join, but we should be diplomatic in the way we approach these users an ask them to join. In the past, I have seen people be rude to these new users. That's not how I would want my Rennlist community to be thought of.
08-27-2006, 10:23 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
My personal opinion - new users should be educated. These guys with hundreds of posts should be ridiculed. This site is an incredible resource for great information as well as great people. I gladly pay my dues and will continue to pay my dues. I think it would be great of John & Jenn could quit their real jobs and make lots of money working for us!!
08-27-2006, 10:29 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by gordo993
My personal opinion - new users should be educated. These guys with hundreds of posts should be ridiculed. This site is an incredible resource for great information as well as great people. I gladly pay my dues and will continue to pay my dues. I think it would be great of John & Jenn could quit their real jobs and make lots of money working for us!!
08-27-2006, 10:38 PM
#14
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I think I visited this site twice as I began my search for a 993 .. and then I gladly paid my dues. I have zero mechanical ability .. but I have learned so much from all you folks. Frankly I think the site has greater value than what we currently pay.
Those that don't offer to pay are the folks that go to lunch in a big group and eat+have a beer and then throw $5 in the pool for $8 consumed and head out before its settled. Hate that. Tell them to pay up after a few posts. If they don't like .. hope we don't see ya around cheapskates.
Those that don't offer to pay are the folks that go to lunch in a big group and eat+have a beer and then throw $5 in the pool for $8 consumed and head out before its settled. Hate that. Tell them to pay up after a few posts. If they don't like .. hope we don't see ya around cheapskates.
08-27-2006, 10:40 PM
#15
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by LeMarquis
If this isn't a cash cow for them then maybe they need to hire a web consultanting firm. Conservatively they should be pulling in a half mil off the site per year after paying off whatever bandwidth / server costs. The money might as well be going to them instead of ISP's and Equipment, they're the ones doing all the work.
The bottom line is that if we were all freeloaders this site would not exist.
So my question to you is who would loose at the end? John and Jenn or us?