Garth S

-2 deg front camber sounds like a lot for a street car ( if that is per wheel): I thought that the norm was -0.5 to -1.0 on front with another -1.0 added to that number for the rear. Also, rear toe rings in at -0.10/wheel .... which is OK if the -0.17 is total rear toe.

Chris, I'll bite - what's the deal on welding inner tie rods??

Jukelemon

The camber is good in my opinion. I run the same camber on the M3 and, apart from tire wear, really should not adversely affect the steering in street conditions.

In terms of rear toe, the .17, according to factory spec, is the tolerance limit. .2-.34 for both is acceptable.

Greg Fishman

I don't the camber would cause this issue as it is not extreme. I always run the front camber more than factory spec and the rear less than factory spec. The factory set the car up to understeer and changing the camber settings helps make the car more neutral.

TomF

FYI, don't just replace the inner tie-rod end. The cost is only slightly less than the complete tie-rod assembly.

Chris, I will bite as well... what did you mean by welding the inner ends?

FotoVeloce

Wondering about this too.

Peter B

THis is exactly the problem I have been having with a 95C4. After long discussions & plenty of feedback on the PCGB site I reluctantly came to the conclusion that it was the non-standard 18" wheels doing it for mine. Apparently 8.5J is too wide at the front.....
Interesting that you mention the tie rod dampers. Very rare? Yes no?

Jack of Hearts

My car was also very nervous at the front after an M030/Bilstein/alignment upgrade, even w new tires. Boosting tire pressures 2lbs on the 17" Michelin Pilot Sport ribs helped a little. Then I converted to 18" wheels and Michelin Pilot Sport 2s and that helped A LOT. Still will probably replace the tie rods though. Front could still be tighter. (80,000 on the clock).

deltawedge

I will second the tire rod suggestion. I can tell you from experiance that when the tie-rod gets very bad, not only will it be squirley on the straights, but it will steer out of a turn when pushed hard.

For example, imagine yourself turning in. The cars takes a set, the g's build and then the car steers out of the turn on its on, no squeal, no increased steering effort, just straight off the turn. So you add more steering and it comes back. Then, when the road goes straight you notice that the steering wheel is no longer straight when you are going straight. A quick bit of opposite steer fixes it, and you wonder what the h??? is going on? It is as though the outside wheel straightens out (which is what was happening) when under heavy load. Evil rubber dampers.

Need to replace them, and I would suggest in pairs. I replaced the driver's side first, and now the passenger side needs attention about 5k miles later.

Wilder

I experienced something very similar to what you're describing and fixed it without having to replace the tie rods. I'm running 18" twists with HD/ROW M030. I put the wheels on first then the suspension.

The steering always felt "light" or tippy (loose, as you describe it). I was hoping it'd go away after the suspension install and alignment but it didn't. I had to go back to the alignment shop four times to get it perfect and now it is...problem solved.

Even though your experience with BMWs may lead you to belive that -2 camber is okay, I was advised against it by my p-car tech and specifically said that this is what would make the car feel tippy or light on the straights. I eventually ended up with -1.45 at the front and -1.25 at the rear. I can't remember my toe but I belive it's RS spec. My car vastly improved after getting this done. What made it absolutely perfect was installing 7mm spacers in the rear and 14mm spacers in the front. I'm sure some here will debate the benefit of using spacers but it made the car perfect for me.

BTW, I initially thought it'd be the tie-rods too but IIRC, they don't become an issue until north of 60k mi, although I'm going by memory and could be wrong.

deltawedge

Good point. My car has 77k and the driver side tie rod was done at 72K.

ca993twin

Can it be something to do with the Nitto tires that you are using? Can you find a local guy that will let you do a fast swap to see how it feels with a more "top-line" tire?

Brad '95 C4

I have had similar ill handling and all was fixed with knowledgeable alignment tech who knows the importance of setting kinematic toe and has the right tool for this. Also, my previous owner installed PSS9's were installed incorrectly and since they were early model PSS9 they did not come with the proper hat on the upper rear mounts--this gave me the feeling that I was always correcting my line in a turn & the rear was on a pogo stick from side to side.

My C2S now handles like its on rails!

Jukelemon

Guys, thank you.

The issue here with ALL of the responses is that they are inconsistent

Some say tie rods, some say wheels, some say alignment/tires.

Nitto tires, regardless of price or market penetration, are great tires. I have run them on the last 993 (no issues) and the M3 twice (no issues).

Camber difference of .5" making ALL the difference? Damn, are these chassis THAT sensitive?

I can understand these tweaks to gain an extra 2/10's on a course but NOT to resolve an on center/loose steering feeling at 65 mph. To me and from my experience with several types of cars, this relates to a major failure. I mean, my Mom's Honda feels better at 65 than this 993 even AFTER a suspension upgrade and alignment from Porsche.

By the way, Porsche claims to have ALL the necessary equipment to do the appropriate alignment.

Well, I am switching cars with Greg at noon today and we are going to go for a spirited run on the backroads. That should tell me a lot about what is going on here.

I KNOW something is wrong-Porsche's should not behave this way.

TomF

Good luck with the diagnosis. I know what you mean about things feeling off in the steering. It doesn't take much to get it out of whack.

Jukelemon

Well, I traded cars with Greg-his is a 80k mile 98 c4s with original tie rods/A arm bushings etc. 0 issues with his car. Felt predictable and stable.

He drove mine and felt what I thought BUT described it as a back end issue ( :

So, I drove his then mine and around a corner I felt that odd, loose steering feeling like the car was sliding nicely THEN gripped THEN released. Just not right.

SO, I am having two independent people drive/look at this car in the next couple days.

Stay tuned....

Thanks