C2S current value check

TuonoR · 03-06-2009, 11:57 AM

After a long while of searching off and on, I have found a C2S I'm excited about. I know pricing on C2S's have held in reasonably well but wanted to get a reality check as I also know this car has been sitting for some time and clearly any depreciating asset has depreciated over the last 6 months.

The car: 1997 C2S, 33k miles, polar silver / black, 6-speed, motor sound package.

Condition: Described as very clean with one known minor touch up on the paint (no accident but scraped against another car while being moved). Also a relatively well documented example

Obviously, I'd get a PPI if the initial pass looks good, but curious where values for a similar mileage, clean example are. Seems like there are 2 on ebay that have been there for quite some time: one with a buy-it-now at $50k with 38k miles and a low miler / tip car at $67k but only 13k miles. Obviously there is the higher mile example mentioned in this forum thread (Guards Red, 74k miles for $36k).

I haven't been able to find any real transaction prices (ie cleared transactions on ebay, etc.) so curious what other members may have found recently...

Thanks in advance.

Van1 · 03-06-2009, 12:06 PM

Just a WAG on my part but I say $36k tops. With NB cars going for mid $20k's, this maintains the $10k premium that historically folks seem to be willing to pay for a little extra metal in the rear.

Safemoney · 03-06-2009, 12:50 PM

Look like pretty nice cars, but their prices are WAY high for today's market.

I think mid to high 30s is fair for these cars, but don't think these dealers - Truspeed...etc, are valuing the cars today, they are valuing them as of the prices months ago when they bought their inventory.

They are going to either have to reduce the prices or just hang onto them for a LONG time to sell them.

My .02

rome · 03-06-2009, 01:21 PM

Sounds like my car-- '97 C2S w/ 33K miles, motor sound, some paintwork due to a keying (while owned by the PO).

I don't think there is a "market" per se right now. Because of all the economic turmoil, sellers have a VERY wide range of profiles-- some really need to sell....and some would never sell while pricing is so soft. Really nice examples priced at $60K+ might just sit for a while.

I wouldn't sell my car for $36, but if you find a car you like then make an offer....These days, you just never know...

DC from Cape Cod · 03-06-2009, 01:28 PM

Truspeed etc., will price these cars just above where they will sell for. It only takes 1 person to write a check and establish value.....even if 99 others disagree. This economy has brought the doomsayers out in droves and in the real estate market we see them offer half the asking prices for homes. The fact of the matter is that every deal is different. Some sellers need to sell and some do not. Some buyers are serious and some thing they are going to take top dollar homes for a song. The truth of the market is somewhere in between.

If you monitor the asking prices of the low mileage widebodies they have certainly dropped...but there are still cars selling for over $50K....just not the $65K they were bringing last year.

All you can do is to decide what a particular car is worth to you and then work your way up to that number. There are far too many opinions in the market today to trust one that has not seen multiple transactions. I would suggest calling a car broker or emailing some of the Rennlist sponsors who are in the business.

TuonoR · 03-06-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC from Cape Cod

Truspeed etc., will price these cars just above where they will sell for. It only takes 1 person to write a check and establish value.....even if 99 others disagree. This economy has brought the doomsayers out in droves and in the real estate market we see them offer half the asking prices for homes. The fact of the matter is that every deal is different. Some sellers need to sell and some do not. Some buyers are serious and some thing they are going to take top dollar homes for a song. The truth of the market is somewhere in between.

If you monitor the asking prices of the low mileage widebodies they have certainly dropped...but there are still cars selling for over $50K....just not the $65K they were bringing last year.

All you can do is to decide what a particular car is worth to you and then work your way up to that number. There are far too many opinions in the market today to trust one that has not seen multiple transactions. I would suggest calling a car broker or emailing some of the Rennlist sponsors who are in the business.

Many thanks for the feedback. When you say low mile do you mean < 15k milers or something similar to the one I'm looking at (33k miles). Also curious how recent the transactions you described were.

I'm torn on this car...perfect color (its garage mate will be a grigio alloy stradale) but concerned about the paint touch up (spot touch up on a much larger panel = hard to properly fix if its not right).

Stealth 993 · 03-06-2009, 01:44 PM

$36k really?

Prices have fallen, but that most 993 NB's are in that price range.

For a clean no stories "S" car, I would say low $40's, 6mo ago that would be a $55k+ car.

DC from Cape Cod · 03-06-2009, 01:47 PM

Low miles = subjective. Alfie from ira always told me there was a pretty substantial price hit at 30K miles. I would not worry about a cosmetic issue that was resprayed AS LONG AS it was done properly. I would be more concerned if it was more than cosmetic and personally would not buy a car that had panels replaced or mechanical damage. However, that is just me. Nothing wrong with either or those issues for a daily driver.

Van1 · 03-06-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth 993

$36k really?

Prices have fallen, but that most 993 NB's are in that price range.

For a clean no stories "S" car, I would say low $40's, 6mo ago that would be a $55k+ car.

I said $36k was a WAG and probably better than what Nile is going to come along and say what it is worth. Low $40's does actually sound more fair.

BTW, I know of a one owner, low mile (18k mi) silver '98 C2S for sale in Omaha. He is asking (gulp) $62k.

TRINITONY · 03-06-2009, 02:21 PM

paging Nile1..

rome · 03-06-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Academictech

..... The 993 C2S is just the right P-Car for me.

I agree!

There are probably only a handful of Porsches I'd want ahead of a 993 C2S (as a third car/toy), but they are generally all MUCH more expensive (for e.g. '94 Flachbau, 993 Turbo S, '94 Package Car, 959 etc).

In the $50K (+/-) range the C2S gives you the (last of the) aircooled pedigree, history and a degree of rarity, plus modern performance (and great looks).

No question I would take the 993 C2S over a 2 or 3 year old 997 for the same $50K, or a new (or very lightly used) Cayman.

Other choices would be an '89 Speedster or '89 Turbo, but prices have really climbed on those to the point where they are more than the 993 S cars.

All that said, if I had an extra $30K that I didn't know what to do with I'd probably swap my C2S for a low mileage '97 993TT.

stedge · 03-06-2009, 02:49 PM

the market for sellers probably sucks. I would not sell my C4S for anything near 36k, but I don't have to sell it so it's a moot point.

Good luck in your search. They are lovely and fun cars.

grwoolf · 03-06-2009, 04:13 PM

I paid close to 50 for mine back in Nov. It was a very clean car with 25k miles, nothing fancy on the options. I wouldn't sell it today for $55k just because the car was right and I'd have to hunt down another one (not that anyone would pay 55 for it). That said, I don't think anyone knows what the fair market is on anything right now, particularly a non-commodity item like this. Obviously, it is a bad time to sell and a great time to buy, so the prices should be way down . I believe there is a good chance they will go lower, but who knows. I wouldn't worry too much about the market, just figure out what level of car you want and how much you are willing to spend on it (value to you). If you find the right car, I wouldnt' worry about $5k one way or the other unless you plan to sell it right away. I'm not saying $5k isn't a lot of $, but it's not that big if you consider the total cost of ownership for a car like this. I've probably driven $5k worth of depreciation miles off my car since I got it in November. Maybe another $5-10k in market deperciation with the econmony. I can tell you, driving the car is a much more enjoyable way to deperciate an asset than watching my 401k disappear.

nile13 · 03-06-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRINITONY

paging Nile1..

Thank you, although add 12 to that name :-)
$36-37K. See a current thread with a guy asking $38.5K with 23K miles.

mjsporsche · 03-06-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Academictech

That $38.5K would be a good deal if the guy were actually selling the car.

Several here have responded and he has yet to find time to respond to the inquiries about his 'car-for-sale'; this despite finding lots of time to hang out on the Rennlist board and tell us that he's a busy guy.

+1 I just do not get it. A number of us have made the inquiries but no response. Why bother (us)???

03-06-2009, 11:57 AM	#1
TuonoR User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5	C2S current value check After a long while of searching off and on, I have found a C2S I'm excited about. I know pricing on C2S's have held in reasonably well but wanted to get a reality check as I also know this car has been sitting for some time and clearly any depreciating asset has depreciated over the last 6 months. The car: 1997 C2S, 33k miles, polar silver / black, 6-speed, motor sound package. Condition: Described as very clean with one known minor touch up on the paint (no accident but scraped against another car while being moved). Also a relatively well documented example Obviously, I'd get a PPI if the initial pass looks good, but curious where values for a similar mileage, clean example are. Seems like there are 2 on ebay that have been there for quite some time: one with a buy-it-now at $50k with 38k miles and a low miler / tip car at $67k but only 13k miles. Obviously there is the higher mile example mentioned in this forum thread (Guards Red, 74k miles for $36k). I haven't been able to find any real transaction prices (ie cleared transactions on ebay, etc.) so curious what other members may have found recently... Thanks in advance.

03-06-2009, 12:06 PM	#2
Van1 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 559	Just a WAG on my part but I say $36k tops. With NB cars going for mid $20k's, this maintains the $10k premium that historically folks seem to be willing to pay for a little extra metal in the rear. __________________ 1997 993 Pastel Yellow 2007 VW Touareg V10 TDI 2008 VW R32 2001 Ducati ST2 2002 22' Airstream International AS 2004 Scag 36" Advantage commercial walk behind mower 2008 Lawnboy Insight Platinum self propelled mower 1998 Echo SRM 2100 string trimmer 1998 Echo PB 2100 hand held blower 2005 Power Trim 150 edger 1995 Tanaka Hedge trimmers 2005 Ariens 724 snowblower 1998 Snapper 17 LE snowblower 2008 Stihl 180 MiniBoss chainsaw 2009 Stihl BR 550 backpack blower

03-06-2009, 12:50 PM	#3
Safemoney Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 227	Look like pretty nice cars, but their prices are WAY high for today's market. I think mid to high 30s is fair for these cars, but don't think these dealers - Truspeed...etc, are valuing the cars today, they are valuing them as of the prices months ago when they bought their inventory. They are going to either have to reduce the prices or just hang onto them for a LONG time to sell them. My .02 __________________ Trae '98 C2S - 38.5K, FabSpeed Exhaust, Stainless Tips, Stainless Sills, H&R Springs, Clear Turns, SRP Pedals... '04 Cayenne S - DD, No mods...yet '97 993 - PSS10s/RS Splitters/RS 3.6 Rear Bi-Wing/19" Alt Miros/Stainless Tips - SOLD! '08 GS-350 - Sold '08 GMC Acadia - Baby Buggy '03 E320 - Gone

03-06-2009, 01:21 PM	#4
rome Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,428	Sounds like my car-- '97 C2S w/ 33K miles, motor sound, some paintwork due to a keying (while owned by the PO). I don't think there is a "market" per se right now. Because of all the economic turmoil, sellers have a VERY wide range of profiles-- some really need to sell....and some would never sell while pricing is so soft. Really nice examples priced at $60K+ might just sit for a while. I wouldn't sell my car for $36, but if you find a car you like then make an offer....These days, you just never know... __________________ '06 Cayenne S -- Basalt Black/Black Full Leather '97 993 C2S-- Ocean Blue/Cashmere

03-06-2009, 01:28 PM	#5
DC from Cape Cod Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Cape Cod, MA Posts: 2,168	Truspeed etc., will price these cars just above where they will sell for. It only takes 1 person to write a check and establish value.....even if 99 others disagree. This economy has brought the doomsayers out in droves and in the real estate market we see them offer half the asking prices for homes. The fact of the matter is that every deal is different. Some sellers need to sell and some do not. Some buyers are serious and some thing they are going to take top dollar homes for a song. The truth of the market is somewhere in between. If you monitor the asking prices of the low mileage widebodies they have certainly dropped...but there are still cars selling for over $50K....just not the $65K they were bringing last year. All you can do is to decide what a particular car is worth to you and then work your way up to that number. There are far too many opinions in the market today to trust one that has not seen multiple transactions. I would suggest calling a car broker or emailing some of the Rennlist sponsors who are in the business. __________________ 1998 C2S PSS-9 Suspension Supercup Exhaust 2006 Audi A3 3.2

03-06-2009, 01:44 PM	#7
Stealth 993 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,412	$36k really? Prices have fallen, but that most 993 NB's are in that price range. For a clean no stories "S" car, I would say low $40's, 6mo ago that would be a $55k+ car. __________________ Don't Click

03-06-2009, 01:47 PM	#8
DC from Cape Cod Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Cape Cod, MA Posts: 2,168	Low miles = subjective. Alfie from ira always told me there was a pretty substantial price hit at 30K miles. I would not worry about a cosmetic issue that was resprayed AS LONG AS it was done properly. I would be more concerned if it was more than cosmetic and personally would not buy a car that had panels replaced or mechanical damage. However, that is just me. Nothing wrong with either or those issues for a daily driver. __________________ 1998 C2S PSS-9 Suspension Supercup Exhaust 2006 Audi A3 3.2

03-06-2009, 02:49 PM	#12
stedge Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Durham, NC (Go Duke!) Posts: 1,156	the market for sellers probably sucks. I would not sell my C4S for anything near 36k, but I don't have to sell it so it's a moot point. Good luck in your search. They are lovely and fun cars. __________________ Stedge 97 C4S - ocean blue metallic, sport seats, motorsound, pss9, m030 sways, rs mounts, turbo sducts, ssbrake lines, fpb, etc, etc 06 STI - black, stock for now and lots of fun 01 Odyssey - typical Honda minivan color 01 Seven Alaris/Chorus 10 - titanium, of course - my best purchase ever R# 030114-2523 gone but not forgotten:: several S2000s - great fun, but need a back seat now

03-06-2009, 04:13 PM	#13
grwoolf User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 296	I paid close to 50 for mine back in Nov. It was a very clean car with 25k miles, nothing fancy on the options. I wouldn't sell it today for $55k just because the car was right and I'd have to hunt down another one (not that anyone would pay 55 for it). That said, I don't think anyone knows what the fair market is on anything right now, particularly a non-commodity item like this. Obviously, it is a bad time to sell and a great time to buy, so the prices should be way down . I believe there is a good chance they will go lower, but who knows. I wouldn't worry too much about the market, just figure out what level of car you want and how much you are willing to spend on it (value to you). If you find the right car, I wouldnt' worry about $5k one way or the other unless you plan to sell it right away. I'm not saying $5k isn't a lot of $, but it's not that big if you consider the total cost of ownership for a car like this. I've probably driven $5k worth of depreciation miles off my car since I got it in November. Maybe another $5-10k in market deperciation with the econmony. I can tell you, driving the car is a much more enjoyable way to deperciate an asset than watching my 401k disappear.