964 vs. 993???

[ginch]

Hey everyone,

I spend most of my time in the 964 forum. I own a 1993 C2 5 speed coupe. Black on black with 48,000 miles.








Its the first porsche I've ever owned however I've been a 911 freak since I was young. I bought the car when I was 35. I guess I had an early midlife crisis.

Anyways, I love the car to bits however am facinated by the wide body, rear soilerless (not sure if thats a word) 911. I'm craving a C2S or C4S 993 (or maybe a 1994 C4 widebody). Taking your collective porsche ownership into consideration, what would you say would be the major benefits of jumping to a 993 vs. my 964 (body style aside)?

I realize the 993 is newer and last of its kind but is it really worth it jump ship?
I know the widebody 993's will hold their value well but I'm looking for real world owner feedback.

Thank you in advance!

Derek

[porschemikeandnancy]

Each series of 911's including the current and previous water cooled ones (996 & 997) have their weaknesses. The 993's ('96-'96) have known issues with secondary air injection clog ups which cause the CEL to come on (and you will then fail most state's inspections)

My own '95 has had two wiring harness replacements (a known problem on '95's and some '96's). And all 993's have weak valve guides - most require a top end rebuilt at under 100k miles.

Don't recall, offhand, the known issues with the 964. I vaguely recall problems with some engine components (maybe head studs and/or problems with no gaskets between head and block)

I personally like the 87-89 years, relatively simple, last of the "no power steering" cars.

The '95-'98's have the new rear axle which was a major improvement, hydraulic valves, and the same dual spark plug/dual distributor that the 964 has. My 60k tuneup included two new distributor caps which I think were over $120 each.

The good news is my '95 has never "failed me on the road", nor failed to start. Even when my wiring harness was failing for the second time (I did not own the car when the first replacement was done) the car got me home and then to the repair shop without failure.

The 993's (not sure about the 964's) have all the current modern stuff any new car has. ABS, traction control, air bags (but no head bags, just fronts), modern fuel injection. They do not have tire pressure monitoring (my feeling on that is these systems are quite prone to failure - especially wheel sensors - which are expensive to fix), or "advanced yaw control". But I suggest you can drive a 993 just about forever - when compared to any current model (my wife's '07 BMW 328i has more airbags, the yaw control, headlight washers (which the 993 has as well), and the tire pressure monitoring system but I don't feel "deprived" or that I'm missing anything. And even though the 328i has great road feel (BMW is a very close second to Porsche in how sensitive the steering is - the tactile feedback you get through the wheel), there is nothing like the 911 - whether the old non power assist or the latest 997.

Only you can decide if it is worth (maybe $5k up to $15k) to trade up.

[arjag]

Derek,
Beautiful car. It's funny how once we obtain the car of our dreams we start to think about what is next! Based on what I have read you couldn't go wrong with a 993. Good luck!
Alex

[ddsiu]

though I dont have any advise to give other then what has already been mentioned...but I just like to give you a thumbs up on your 964. Its beautiful and I couldnt have made it look any better.

[Tango635]

I don't own a 993 yet, although I am in the hunt. This will be my first Porsche. So from an outsider's perspective, if you will, the main thing that attracts me to the 993 is the looks. The modern technologies/amenities mentioned by others are just icing on the cake for me. I get the impression looks is the main reason why you are looking at the wide bodies, right?? However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your car, it's very beautiful. I hope someone comments on the handling differences between the two. I'm suspecting that as long as both cars are properly set-up, there wont be much difference?

[Rinty]

Derek:

Last year, when I was deciding which 911 to buy, I had a short list of four models, of which the 964 was one. I picked the 993 over the 964, because of the larger trunk space, and the multi link rear suspension. The other mechanical stuff didn't really factor much into my decision. I wanted the trunk space because I planned on doing a lot of touring with the car, and I wanted the rear suspension because it was supposed to be a lot quieter, and I knew I was picky about road noise.

As much as I like 993's, I think that if I had an exquisite, low mileage 964 like yours, I would not be inclined to incur the additional cost.

But I think what you're really looking at, is getting into a widebody; and that's a force that's hard to resist.

Good luck with your decision.

[ilko]

Wait, larger trunk space? Haven't heard of that before. Is the gas tank smaller on the 993? I can't see what else could be different...

[Streetfighter]

Ginch, here is my two cents, coming from a 964. The 993 is a beautiful Porsche from C2's to the Turbo's and the C2S and C4S. The 993 is a little bit faster and handles nicely, hooks up well to the road with stock suspension. They hold there value well due to the fact that they are the last of the aircooled 911's. It is nice to have that 6th gear for highway cruising. With that being said, I would drive a few 993's and see what you think. I have driven quite a few and there are excellent cars, but more modern than a 964. The 964 feels more raw and you feel a little bit more connected, same as a 3.2 is more and connected with the driver. The weird things is looking out over that hood and not seeing those two bazooka tubes! Regardless the 993 is a sweet car and I have loved it since I was young. Ended up buying a 964 that I am crazy about. I would honestly say that I would buy another 964 over a 993.

[timothymoffat]

With such a stunning, late 964 (most problems of the series were addressed by the time your car was built), make sure you drive several 993s before making your decision. Finding a good 964 is getting very hard to do these days as there are fewer around to pick from. The 993 moves the game on in the ride and handling department, has a 6-speed transmission (albeit with less than ideal gearing for North American market cars), and is definitely an eye catcher. The 964, however, is that little bit more raw, retains the original hood/headlight design (breathtaking), and, IMO, an interior that feels just a bit more solid with better materials (the cost cutting started with the 993).

How about this: Keep your beautiful 964 and get a NB (narrow-body) 993.

[Jim W]

I had a 964 before the 993 and really enjoyed it. The biggest difference for me was the 'look'. the ride and feel and interior are IMO quite similar. I did not feel the power or suspension difference very much. Six gears are nice, but the intervals are bad. The tires seem to affect noise as much as anything. I had to have the 993 for the look and love it. With upgraded suspension, brakes, flywheel and clutch its as feelsome and fun as can be.

[Rinty]

...larger trunk space? Ilko

Yes; the re-contouring of the hood lines resulted in about 30% more trunk space. Basically, Tony Hatton filled in the space between the two torpedos. The fuel tank size was reduced from 77 to 72 litres.

This is from Frere's book, 911 Story.

When my wife and I go touring, we put her carry on size suitcase and a laptop in the trunk (it fits if you tip it). My suitcase goes behind the seats. I figure that way, if it's stolen, I am the only one upset.

[ilko]

Thanks Rinty, didn't know that. That's great news since I'm looking for more luggage space as well. I'll have to go through Frere's book when I have a chance.

[Ed Burdell]

Derek, that is the prettiest 964 I have ever seen. I would have to think from your position, the move up to a 993 would be but a marginal improvement for a not-so-marginal increased cost. Having said that, the 993's looks are pure sex on wheels - I couldn't argue with you if you made the trade! You really can't go wrong either way.

[Avid Fan]

Derek, I've owned seven 911s, four of which have been 993s and three of those being WB cars. I'm p-carless but will be shopping again soon and will be looking at 964s and 993s.

It's difficult to advise on this because it's a very personal decision and there is little info being provided in terms of what you want out of the car. That said, I have a couple of suggestions: Go drive a a C2S/C4S and after you spend some time with the car, ask yourself if it's worth 2x the value of your car. That's what you'll be paying for a WB 993 in comparable condition to your car. Also, make sure your not falling into the "grass is greener" trap. After owning several WB 993s, I'd love to own a 964, especially one as clean and well sorted as yours. They are fairly similar cars and both are excellent in their own right. Sorry I can't help more but only you can make a decision that works for you.

[Rinty]

I'll have to go through Frere's book...Ilko

In the eighth edition, it's on page 122: "The reduced slope of the bonnet has increased the capacity of the front locker by nearly 30 per cent."

I find technical books to be heavy going, but "911 Story" was an invaluable help when I was shortening my 911 list.