Window Rust

SC2993 · 11-02-2009, 04:40 PM

**UPDATE 11/5** I have attached some new photos of the rust repair

The shop is making good progress now, they had to remove a little metal from the rear window area to get rid of any rust. I hope to get the car back mid to late next week.

I have been watching a rust bubble grow for a little while now and decided to take her in for the repair. Seems that down here in TX this is not common as many shops do not want to touch corrosion, I would think that this would be fairly common in the north. My car began its life in HI and then moved to CA, it was transfered to TX about 4 years ago so it did operate in salt air for 11 years.

It appears that the rear window defroster wire and the front window antennae wire was imbedded in the window seal material. Is this normal or have the windows been out of the car before? None of the paperwork from the PO's indicated window removal but they are not 100% complete back to year 1. The body shop hired a person to remove the windows and the wires were cut taking the window out, they can be repaired.

The plastic window gasket around the rear window was cut at the top only, I have read that a plastic window gasket is not available unless you purchase a completely new window. The body shop thinks that they can salvage the area, at least I hope so. Any advice on this issue?

The body shop was recommended by a highly respected source and they only work on high end vehicles. Looks like they will have to remove some metal at the bottom of the window as it is very thin and then fabricate a radius piece to insert in the area just above the rear deck.

I will post more photos as the repair progresses.

993/907 · 11-02-2009, 05:38 PM

Ouch, that looks painfull. I have a white '95 that I drive summer and winter in Alaska. I have a tiny spot starting on the cowl just under the windshield gasket, certainly nothing as bad as yours. I wonder if that wiring induced a little stray current, created a "battery" causing that degree of corrosion. Very unusual in the fully galvanized late cars.

CAHRERA · 11-02-2009, 06:14 PM

After I wash the car I always go around all 4 lower corners of the Front and Back windshields and try to dry underneath the seals with a paper towel. Hopefully by doing this it won't get what you have. Not sure if the previous owner my car was as diligent in doing the samething. Knock on

wood I don't see any bubbling around the corners.

porschemikeandnancy · 11-02-2009, 07:55 PM

The small bubble at the right front of the windshield (passenger side) is a known issue with the 993's. Something about a bad seal that allows water to get under the rubber, sit there and do it's damage.

My own car had it when I purchased it (a '95 owned for 3 winters now). I sanded it down to bare metal (working very carefully to only sand the very small area (probably 6 cm x 1.5 cm). Painted it with the standard Porsche color touch up kit - then the clear coat on top. It has been fine for nearly 3 years now. I have noticed that the clear coat does tend to crack a bit maybe after a year or so in the sun (rare in Seattle most of the year) - but then I simply put another of clear coat on - and it fills in the cracks for another year.

JimPA · 11-02-2009, 09:37 PM

My 98 is a daily driver and had rust on the left front corner below the windshield. It was more widespread than just the small amount peeking out from under the gasket. The body shop removed the windshield to allow a proper repair. I then had lots of trouble with minor leaks at the lower corner of the windshield, especially on the left side. Supposedly, the shop used outside, knowledgeable people to handle the windshield. After multiple tries to get it right, the shop replaced the windshield (free) and, at the same time, repaired (free) a small new rust area on the right side of the cowl. The new windshield leaked too but finally was sealed properly and is no longer leaking.

johzev · 11-02-2009, 10:24 PM

Man that is scary looking. Currently I have no indication of rust in these areas however I do note that after washing my car water ponds at the lower corners of the rear window. Another are of concern is below the rear reflective lens.

I've been considering the purchase of a small air compressor just to blow the water out of those areas after a wash. Also wondering if if would be wise to drip a little WD 40 or 3 in 1 oil in the corners behind the rubber gasket?

black ice · 11-02-2009, 10:39 PM

Your challenge will be to get a decent seal without the plastic retainer going around the window. That looks pretty beat up.

I couldn't find a solution for my window trim ring, which was broken in three of the four corners, and I had a window shot try to glue a couple of seals in there to no avail. they start shrinking up pretty quickly and nothing will hold them.

it's another $600 or so but I'd recommend pulling the window and replacing it, which will give you a good seal and make it much easier to clean up properly too. If they do get you a window make sure they get the right one for your car.

Also make sure the shop knows what the hell they are doing. Let them know you expect the window to be centered properly or they're going to be taking it back out. There's a factory jig to space the window properly which no one uses, and not everyone centers the window properly. The problem with this is you could have a seal lip that pops in under the lip for the window, allowing water to go in the gap where you're trying to keep the water out.

dave

993inNC · 11-02-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAHRERA

After I wash the car I always go around all 4 lower corners of the Front and Back windshields and try to dry underneath the seals with a paper towel. Hopefully by doing this it won't get what you have. Not sure if the previous owner my car was as diligent in doing the samething. Knock on

wood I don't see any bubbling around the corners.

I go around with compressed air and blow out the corners, since finding a bubble at the rear bottom corner of mine. Its amazing how much water gets trapped in there. Would highly suggest doing it with air if one has it, towels etc, don't get the rear water collecting in the window channel!

AOW162435 · 11-02-2009, 11:22 PM

The rubber 'seal' is not a seal - it's more of a cosmetic trim than anything. I insert small, sharpened pieces of wood under each of the four corners after washing in order to allow water to evacuate.

Andreas

ppressle · 11-03-2009, 01:16 AM

We just went through this repair with our 95. We removed the rear window to clean up the metal and paint it. The nylon part of the window cracked off and the outer window seal had nothing to adhere to. The nylon part was not available separately. We discussed just gluing the outer gasket on, but decided to fix it correctly with a new window from Sunset.

A bit more $ up front, but I don't have to worry about it as much.

Kein_Ersatz · 11-03-2009, 08:58 AM

I pop out the rear seal / trim gasket after each wash now. I too was amazed at the amount of water that collects there. Found my 18V battery operated Black&Decker leaf blow dose a great job blowing out water from all sorts of cracks and seams (door jambs, hood, boot, bumper seals, light housings, etc..

So far no rust spots, but I will now explore the front window seal / trim gasket to for the same issues.

Black993 · 11-03-2009, 01:10 PM

Ugh....I have a fairly large bubble going in the bottom center of the rear window. I've been watching it and I'm afraid to look deeper into it.

Whats a typical repair cost for something like this when done right?

Also, isn't the rear seal collecting water part of a sunroof drain problem?

bbs993tt · 11-03-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kein_Ersatz

I pop out the rear seal / trim gasket after each wash now.

How do you do that? Is it easy to put back in place?

bluejam · 11-03-2009, 06:29 PM

Nasty!
I recently noticed small bubbling at the right lower corner of my rear window.
Thanks for the advice here. I'll start airing it out more after washes. A shot of LPS-3 also sounds like a plan. We use it for anti-corrosion applications on aircraft.

Coleman · 11-04-2009, 12:14 PM

I have no rust, but the cover molding has a bit of a gap in that same area on mine, resulting in the rear seal / trim gasket falling into the gap a bit.. I've thought of filling it with a bit of RTV/Silicone to build up the area.. Thoughts?

11-02-2009, 06:14 PM	#3
CAHRERA Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Aloha510 Posts: 1,565	After I wash the car I always go around all 4 lower corners of the Front and Back windshields and try to dry underneath the seals with a paper towel. Hopefully by doing this it won't get what you have. Not sure if the previous owner my car was as diligent in doing the samething. Knock on wood I don't see any bubbling around the corners. __________________ Scott 97 C2S Arena RED"CAHRERA" Got Mods? Rennlist Member 040327-3241 Previous P-cars: 80' 911SC Targa "BLkSAND", 85' Factory-WideBody Targa "CAHRERA", 87' 951 Wife's P-car

11-02-2009, 10:24 PM	#6
johzev Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 107	Man that is scary looking. Currently I have no indication of rust in these areas however I do note that after washing my car water ponds at the lower corners of the rear window. Another are of concern is below the rear reflective lens. I've been considering the purchase of a small air compressor just to blow the water out of those areas after a wash. Also wondering if if would be wise to drip a little WD 40 or 3 in 1 oil in the corners behind the rubber gasket? __________________ Z

11-02-2009, 11:22 PM	#9
AOW162435 Semper Mundus Rennlist Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ellicott City, MD Posts: 8,003	The rubber 'seal' is not a seal - it's more of a cosmetic trim than anything. I insert small, sharpened pieces of wood under each of the four corners after washing in order to allow water to evacuate. Andreas __________________ 1995 993 Coupe Polar Silver - Black peapod-designs.com

11-03-2009, 01:16 AM	#10
ppressle Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Altos, CA Posts: 675	We just went through this repair with our 95. We removed the rear window to clean up the metal and paint it. The nylon part of the window cracked off and the outer window seal had nothing to adhere to. The nylon part was not available separately. We discussed just gluing the outer gasket on, but decided to fix it correctly with a new window from Sunset. A bit more $ up front, but I don't have to worry about it as much. __________________ RLM#: 041015-4811 98 Arctic c2s

11-03-2009, 01:10 PM	#12
Black993 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Daytona Beach Posts: 2,215	Ugh....I have a fairly large bubble going in the bottom center of the rear window. I've been watching it and I'm afraid to look deeper into it. Whats a typical repair cost for something like this when done right? Also, isn't the rear seal collecting water part of a sunroof drain problem? __________________ -Justin -1995 Black/Black C2: Bilstein HD/ROW suspension , MY02's, Little Reds, Big Ovals, HID's, 997 Shifter, Weltmeister Strut brace....88k -2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - bone stock.....36k -2002 Subaru WRX - Slightly modded (daily driver)....157k

11-02-2009, 05:38 PM	#2
993/907 User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 23	Ouch, that looks painfull. I have a white '95 that I drive summer and winter in Alaska. I have a tiny spot starting on the cowl just under the windshield gasket, certainly nothing as bad as yours. I wonder if that wiring induced a little stray current, created a "battery" causing that degree of corrosion. Very unusual in the fully galvanized late cars.

11-02-2009, 07:55 PM	#4
porschemikeandnancy User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: milford NH Posts: 39	The small bubble at the right front of the windshield (passenger side) is a known issue with the 993's. Something about a bad seal that allows water to get under the rubber, sit there and do it's damage. My own car had it when I purchased it (a '95 owned for 3 winters now). I sanded it down to bare metal (working very carefully to only sand the very small area (probably 6 cm x 1.5 cm). Painted it with the standard Porsche color touch up kit - then the clear coat on top. It has been fine for nearly 3 years now. I have noticed that the clear coat does tend to crack a bit maybe after a year or so in the sun (rare in Seattle most of the year) - but then I simply put another of clear coat on - and it fills in the cracks for another year.

11-02-2009, 09:37 PM	#5
JimPA User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Chester Springs, PA Posts: 42	My 98 is a daily driver and had rust on the left front corner below the windshield. It was more widespread than just the small amount peeking out from under the gasket. The body shop removed the windshield to allow a proper repair. I then had lots of trouble with minor leaks at the lower corner of the windshield, especially on the left side. Supposedly, the shop used outside, knowledgeable people to handle the windshield. After multiple tries to get it right, the shop replaced the windshield (free) and, at the same time, repaired (free) a small new rust area on the right side of the cowl. The new windshield leaked too but finally was sealed properly and is no longer leaking.

11-02-2009, 10:39 PM	#7
black ice Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 1,087	Your challenge will be to get a decent seal without the plastic retainer going around the window. That looks pretty beat up. I couldn't find a solution for my window trim ring, which was broken in three of the four corners, and I had a window shot try to glue a couple of seals in there to no avail. they start shrinking up pretty quickly and nothing will hold them. it's another $600 or so but I'd recommend pulling the window and replacing it, which will give you a good seal and make it much easier to clean up properly too. If they do get you a window make sure they get the right one for your car. Also make sure the shop knows what the hell they are doing. Let them know you expect the window to be centered properly or they're going to be taking it back out. There's a factory jig to space the window properly which no one uses, and not everyone centers the window properly. The problem with this is you could have a seal lip that pops in under the lip for the window, allowing water to go in the gap where you're trying to keep the water out. dave

11-03-2009, 08:58 AM	#11
Kein_Ersatz Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Central, Ohio Posts: 205	I pop out the rear seal / trim gasket after each wash now. I too was amazed at the amount of water that collects there. Found my 18V battery operated Black&Decker leaf blow dose a great job blowing out water from all sorts of cracks and seams (door jambs, hood, boot, bumper seals, light housings, etc.. So far no rust spots, but I will now explore the front window seal / trim gasket to for the same issues.

11-03-2009, 06:29 PM	#14
bluejam Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 423	Nasty! I recently noticed small bubbling at the right lower corner of my rear window. Thanks for the advice here. I'll start airing it out more after washes. A shot of LPS-3 also sounds like a plan. We use it for anti-corrosion applications on aircraft. __________________ FONT="Comic Sans MS"][/font]'95 Black 993 C2 Life...be in it.

11-04-2009, 12:14 PM	#15
Coleman Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ogunquit Maine Posts: 834	I have no rust, but the cover molding has a bit of a gap in that same area on mine, resulting in the rear seal / trim gasket falling into the gap a bit.. I've thought of filling it with a bit of RTV/Silicone to build up the area.. Thoughts? __________________ 'Would you... like to be modified?' 'I had in mind something a little more radical.' 95 993 02 MV Agusta F4