cohare

We are approaching a time here in the mid-atlantic that the DE season ending is right around the corner. Its a sad time that can only be brightened with the prospect of squandering additional funds on modifications.

I have gotten to a point where I am not sure what my next mods should be. While something like a supercharger would be fun, I think at my skill level, more power is not nessisary. Looking or more function over form.

I use the car on the street pretty rarely but, would like it to be avaiable for the occasional cruise. it will be used for AX and DE primarily. Short of SC's, tranny re-gearing what should be my next mods and I would like your input.

96 993 C2 w factory LSD
Current Mods:
Pss9's, TRG rear links, ROW sways and track alignment
DACH xpipe + RSR exhaust (love it)
Fikse's with MPSC's & Enkies w/ Hoosiers
Recaro Pole Positions w/ 6pt harnesses
DAS roll bar
Gemballa steering wheel
Strut tower brace
Stock brakes with track pads, track fluid

So some of my thoughts are but, I am not sold on any:
LWF but i want to wait until my clutch needs to be replaced, its still very strong
Lightening? (remove rear speaker panel if I can)
should I look to go with Motons? is it worth the price?
Bigger sways? how much of a PIA are they to install?

What else??

matt777

How about some Chris Walrod front control arm bushings and the FD Golden Rod for a better feel? It shouldn't help your times though.

Mark in Baltimore

Not sure what run group you're in, but I'd recommend coaching and more track time. Looks like you've got most of the right tools already. Motons will be a step up and an improvement, no doubt.

Paddy

Do you have an aux oil cooler? If not that should be number one. If you do then I'd spend the money on suspension and seat time. Ditch the PSS9 setup and if you're going to replace the bushings for a track/DE car skip the Walrod bushings and go for monoballs. Also, I would consider RS adjustable sways. IMO

-Patrick

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Some thoughts,.....

1) The RS LWF package is very nice and you would enjoy it.

2) Reducing weight is always good on all counts.

3) Motons are well worth the investment, however I could not tell you whether they are the ticket for you without a detailed discussion about your experience and skill level. All things being equal, its a big reduction in lap times over PSS-9's.

4) Bigger ARB's are not always worthwhile but adjustable ones are. Thats the main tool that provides the ability to alter the understeer/oversteer balance of the car.

Bill Verburg

What are your current spring rates? PSS9/10 are usually pretty soft for track use, I have JIC w/ 450/675# springs and find that is good for where I'm at, 993 Cup run 600/800 and the more knowledgeable guys swear by Motons w/ those spring rates

I replaced all the bushes w/ RS or hard rubber from ERP on mine, w/ Tarret toe links and solid side bushes. I wanted to keep mine usable for very occasional street use too and it has worked out very well. If it was track only use monoballs at all the bushes.

Lightening is always good but hard to accomplish, I deleted the radio/speakers and wiring and replaced the rear shelf w/ RS carpet, also removed the stock knee pad and air bags but mine is still 2900 wet, still better than stock and you can feel the difference at track events. Mine also has extra weight from the second oil cooler, RS brakes and Das rollbar. Next weight loss will have to be from the sunroof and a better rollbar setup.

I have adjustable RS sways on mine, once dialed in you don't generally need to touch them they work great w/ the chassis setup I have

what size tire and wheels and ET wheels do you use, I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer to my inquires to Fikse as to their recommendations for the n/b 993 chassis.

If you are ok w/ your brakes that's fine but the RS setup is a notch up in performance and longevity

cohare

That of course is the thing I need most but, given the weather changes only so many opportunities. Hopefully once I qualify for higher run groups I can get to mroe events. With my work schedule its hard to know 2 months in advance if I can make an event and all the green run groups fill up very quickly.

Just looking for things to upgrade during the down time.

cohare

LWF is more of a when, rather than if. How much do they run? If I get to the track enough before winter it will be going in.

The more I think about it, I think I am still a season or 2 away from really justifying Motons.

What options are out there for adjustable sways?

RS - arent they like 2k?
Any others and what costs?

cohare

Good easy recomendations on ditching some weight. the first and most obvious was the seats, now i can work on some of the smaller items.

Not sure the spring rates on the PSS9's. I feel like if I am going to go to the trouble of changing suspension it might as well be to the motons, which given my skill level can wait.

What are the stock offsets? I cant remember exactly what the Fikse offsets are but, I know they are a little different than stock. i want to say 52 in front and back I am not sure.

My hoosiers are 245 up front which rub on the inside (only use for autocross) and 275 out back. MPSC are 235 up front and 285 outback, the 285's rubbed slightly on hard left handers when new, not anymore though (both front and rear fenders rolled).

cohare

I do not have an aux oil cooler sounds like a good idea. What kind do you recommend?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

About $2100 with a new slave cylinder.

Maybe,...maybe not. It really depends on your experience and skills. I'd need a lot more information to make any specific recommendations as this is NOT a one-size-fits-all proposition.

RS ones are expensive, without question, but still THE best option for anything that will be driven on the street. TRG ones are less expensive but IMHO, poorly suited for anything driven on the road for more than 40% of its use. I think the TRG ones are fine for race cars.

Bill Verburg

what about this hobby did you expect to be cheap?

Carnewal has the RS sways, ~$1400, there are other ways to go but these work well w/ no side issues like some of the others have, You really don't want to go bigger on the front because of interference issues w/ the brake vacuum canister. If you have electro-hyd brakes like on the tt and RS then that isn't an issue. TRG collars have nasty tendency to break allowing the bar to move around, not a good thing

Carnewal also has the GT oil coolers again not cheap. @ ~$1700. But again these work flawlessly. Ruf used to have aversion of these coolers too but their pipeline couldn't deliver in the 6mo I waited

I forgot to mention that if the car is lowered to where it needs to be for track use then you will also want the RS front uprights and GT2 tierods, once again this isn't going to be cheap.

so it looks like you are using maybe 18s?

I was extremely disappointed in Fikse recommendations for width and ET, 8.5x18 ET50mm and 10x18 ET57mm, they say that they can provide 10ET64 which will be a good fit but have not responded to a request for alternate front ET. I guess that means they don't have any.

cohare

Oh of course it wont be cheap, $1400 isnt too terrible, for some reason its hard for me to grasp spending 2k on sway bars when pss9's are 2.5k. Of course motons are a few times that amount. Looks like i will have to order up a set, I will probably tackle the rear and leave the front for my shop to do. Reading the DIY it looks like I would surely screw up the fronts.

How much is involved in installing the GT oil cooler? - never mind just looked it up, quite a task it looks like.

i am running 18's, sorry not an expert on the wheels, i actually bought them off a guy who had a pretty sick 993 track car that did not appear to be street legal. They have been good for me.

Paddy

My first time around I went with the plug-in-play GT oil cooler from Gert and was very pleased with the kit. That being said I still think it's way over priced much like everything for our cars. After a make out session with a tire wall I decided I couldn't pay close to 2k again for a silly oil cooler. I was able to fab up a aux oil cooler using a factory right-side cooler (Ebay new unit $180) and lines from BAT for under $500. I'm sure At Speed up in your neck of the woods could fab something up for well under 2k.

I should have listened to Mark years ago and gone the Moton route the first time around. I also did the PSS9 to JIC then this past fall moving to Motons.

Van1

I too use 235/285 MPSCs on the track on stock 8 & 10" hollow spokes. My fenders are not rolled and I have no rubbing issues. My camber is set at -2.5 up front and -3.1 in the rear. Anything less than this and I will cord the outside of tires. What are your alignment specs?

Overall, your set up sounds good. Like everybody else has asked so far, what is your track experience? Sometimes spending money on modding the adjustable nut behind the steering wheel is the best option through more track time. And go visit new to you tracks instead of just driving your home track year after year.