In Need of a Sanity Check - Tried and Failed to Line Up a Detail at Auto Concierge
05-31-2012, 04:00 AM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
If your interpretation was that I was/am a cheap SOB trying to get something for nothing, I will tell you that you are mistaken. I've been more than happy giving thousands of dollars of business to vendors and shops recommended on this forum. I've also bought and sold dozens of items in this community without incident. There is a significant difference between asking for a line item price quote to determine what level of service I want and trying to rob a vendor blind. I had no intention of doing the latter.
You know as well as I do that nothing about my description of the events has been inaccurate or misrepresented. I believe that you are disgruntled that our transaction is out in the open, but frankly, if you are willing to stand by your practices throughout our encounter (which evidently you are), you should have no problem with this information being shared with the community.
EDIT: I will refrain from engaging in further back/forth directly with you, Robert. At this juncture, I feel like I've treated you respectfully and recounted the details of our interaction accurately. I have praised the quality of your work. Of course, I've also pointed out that your inability to provide me with a line item price quote was bizarre and foolish, in my opinion. I have not set out to slander you, only to share our encounter as objectively as I can so that others can weigh in on the situation. In turn, you've accused me of trying to harm your reputation unfairly, you've called me "cheap," and you've accused me of playing the "scorned women" [sic] card. In my opinion, you are lucky that I haven't chosen to stoop to that level and slander and malign you unfairly as you have me.
Last edited by asofine; 05-31-2012 at 04:52 AM.
05-31-2012, 05:11 AM
#33
Drifting
Adam truth is also defined by omission................. you and I both know your intent, cheapness is uncurable. You were told of my service because I do the right thing job after job, also you were made well aware of exactly what I was going to do step by step and the cost of those specific tasks..............you are giving the members here a skewed version of what is the reality of what happened and what you say happened, thus my reply's in e-mail as I knew you would be a problem and this thread is proof of that.
As for why I was curt in the e-mail concerning the job performed on Mark's Carrera, it was apples and oranges........two different vehicles(Although both 993 Porsches in the same color) but a world of difference in the condition and thus the price reflected this.
Some feel I am arrogant, not true as many return to me over a long period of time not only for the quality of work but my service level. I am sure some of my clients that know me well will comment accordingly.
As for why I was curt in the e-mail concerning the job performed on Mark's Carrera, it was apples and oranges........two different vehicles(Although both 993 Porsches in the same color) but a world of difference in the condition and thus the price reflected this.
Some feel I am arrogant, not true as many return to me over a long period of time not only for the quality of work but my service level. I am sure some of my clients that know me well will comment accordingly.
From one business owner to another, here is some free advice: Shut-Up!
IMHO, you have handled this wrong from the beginning and you continue to hurt your reputation with each new post.
For your own good, as you are obviously not seeing this clearly, APOLOGIZE and STOP POSTING...
05-31-2012, 09:13 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
I feel this way because I own a business too and deal with guys like the OP all the time, again not bad guys whatsoever, just guys who want you to take more time on the explanation of the costs and services than the time it takes to do the services.
When you build a name and reputation on being a good shop/company you have the luxury of passing when a client and you isn't a good fit. That is what happened here. The lesson I take from this is when you go to this guys shop, ask for what you want not a Chinese menu of 10 things that you are going to choose 5 from.
Finally, to the OP, the fact that you used the shops name in your post and posted private emails between you two tells me everything I need to know about what kind of client you would be. I think that the detailer is probably thinking to himself that he made the right call.
05-31-2012, 09:20 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
User A...the OP seems like a really reasonable guy. As a business owner who deals with a lot of people every day for 25 years I can tell you that some of the greatest relationships I have built have been with those who were initially coming with lots of concerns or questions. By being willing to listen to them and give back a little time and effort they earned my trust and visa versa.
Also, this poster was not malicious in his posting of his personal e mails, nor did he disparage the shop owner...just a good guy looking for some support. I think the shop could have taken a half hour of its time to help this guy out and he probably would have been a great customer for life.
Too bad people are so short tempered and quick to judge these days.
Also, this poster was not malicious in his posting of his personal e mails, nor did he disparage the shop owner...just a good guy looking for some support. I think the shop could have taken a half hour of its time to help this guy out and he probably would have been a great customer for life.
Too bad people are so short tempered and quick to judge these days.
05-31-2012, 09:39 AM
#37
Track Day
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There will be some here that no matter what is said have made up their minds, Adam had their been a video of our initial conversation the court of opinion would be much different.
As for throwing around the word slander...................... my shop rate is well known and contained within my website, you are painting a picture that I "Refused" to provide information to a "Reasonable request", where from my standpoint you were going to waste more time as I have dealt with this many times and my gut feeling about future dealings was right on the money.
If you remember(Which I am sure you claim you do not) as you were constantly telling me that you only wanted to spend this much on this or that................ my service is top quality and the pricepoint reflects this a correction detail is labor heavy and if you wanted something far less how can you be upset when I will not provide this??, you have a choice to use any service provider available and asking for what is not available makes me wrong?.
I disagree that my posts to defend my name are ill advised, because until one of my clients tells of their pleasant dealings with me, who is my advocate in this other than myself.
As for throwing around the word slander...................... my shop rate is well known and contained within my website, you are painting a picture that I "Refused" to provide information to a "Reasonable request", where from my standpoint you were going to waste more time as I have dealt with this many times and my gut feeling about future dealings was right on the money.
If you remember(Which I am sure you claim you do not) as you were constantly telling me that you only wanted to spend this much on this or that................ my service is top quality and the pricepoint reflects this a correction detail is labor heavy and if you wanted something far less how can you be upset when I will not provide this??, you have a choice to use any service provider available and asking for what is not available makes me wrong?.
I disagree that my posts to defend my name are ill advised, because until one of my clients tells of their pleasant dealings with me, who is my advocate in this other than myself.
05-31-2012, 10:13 AM
#38
Racer
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Not taking any sides here but you need a salesman - you do not deal well with people. As you've discovered over the years, you run into all kinds (scammers, cheap-os, people wanting something for nothing, etc). It's part of doing business. If you are a solo guy then you have to deal with them all intelligently or suffer problems like this.
I dealt with much worse for 17 years. What you experienced here is a walk in the park compared to what I dealed with all those years. Learn to deal with them or else you'll be getting an occasional dose of what happened here.
I dealt with much worse for 17 years. What you experienced here is a walk in the park compared to what I dealed with all those years. Learn to deal with them or else you'll be getting an occasional dose of what happened here.
There will be some here that no matter what is said have made up their minds, Adam had their been a video of our initial conversation the court of opinion would be much different.
As for throwing around the word slander...................... my shop rate is well known and contained within my website, you are painting a picture that I "Refused" to provide information to a "Reasonable request", where from my standpoint you were going to waste more time as I have dealt with this many times and my gut feeling about future dealings was right on the money.
If you remember(Which I am sure you claim you do not) as you were constantly telling me that you only wanted to spend this much on this or that................ my service is top quality and the pricepoint reflects this a correction detail is labor heavy and if you wanted something far less how can you be upset when I will not provide this??, you have a choice to use any service provider available and asking for what is not available makes me wrong?.
I disagree that my posts to defend my name are ill advised, because until one of my clients tells of their pleasant dealings with me, who is my advocate in this other than myself.
As for throwing around the word slander...................... my shop rate is well known and contained within my website, you are painting a picture that I "Refused" to provide information to a "Reasonable request", where from my standpoint you were going to waste more time as I have dealt with this many times and my gut feeling about future dealings was right on the money.
If you remember(Which I am sure you claim you do not) as you were constantly telling me that you only wanted to spend this much on this or that................ my service is top quality and the pricepoint reflects this a correction detail is labor heavy and if you wanted something far less how can you be upset when I will not provide this??, you have a choice to use any service provider available and asking for what is not available makes me wrong?.
I disagree that my posts to defend my name are ill advised, because until one of my clients tells of their pleasant dealings with me, who is my advocate in this other than myself.
05-31-2012, 10:51 AM
#39
Addict
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Not taking any sides here but you need a salesman - you do not deal well with people. As you've discovered over the years, you run into all kinds (scammers, cheap-os, people wanting something for nothing, etc). It's part of doing business. If you are a solo guy then you have to deal with them all intelligently or suffer problems like this.
I dealt with much worse for 17 years. What you experienced here is a walk in the park compared to what I dealed with all those years. Learn to deal with them or else you'll be getting an occasional dose of what happened here.
I dealt with much worse for 17 years. What you experienced here is a walk in the park compared to what I dealed with all those years. Learn to deal with them or else you'll be getting an occasional dose of what happened here.
To the OP. I see no reason why you ask for the full meal deal quote if you have no intend on doing it. Being clear and upfront will probably help the people you are dealing manage your expectations properly. You are not a rude man and you came across some business owner who"s definition of "service" is not fully developed, he must be very young and inexperienced in this field. So it was the perfect storm, just move on. I'm not sure I would agree with you posting the emails. At the end of the day, you were just denied service. Its not like the business person actually did a horrible job. Even then I would question private communication on a public forum. Dont like it, never will.
IMO both of you need to move on. Detailing is not nuclear science that required a university degree. All it takes is time, lots of you tube watching, reading and the right tools. Keep it simple. It is not a scary as people think. I just cant see myself to pay $1750 for a "paint correction" detail only for the next wash to introduce more swirls because you have no idea of how to properly wash your car. The key to keep a "show car" is to actually know what to do yourself, well unless you can afford to be paying so much money every weekend!
05-31-2012, 10:55 AM
#40
the problem here is a common cognitive issue known as 'anchoring.'
asofine was informed of a price, under 500, and went for a quote which came in at 3 times that amount.
no matter what happens now he is anchored to that price and works from there in all aspects. which is why he wants a break down of work, hours spent on this or that, all trying to understand why his 'known' price is so much different from the quoted price.
as an example, do a search for something you want buy, no matter how many prices come up at 50 bucks consumers get anchored to the low price that hits, say 44.99. that retailer might not even stock the item, or charge 15 for shipping and 5 for handling. still we get stuck on that low price and try to squeeze it out of other retailers.
or how many times have you seen someone try to sell their beat up unloved 911 for the same price good examples are trading? then they get pissed off when people try to explain why they are asking too much.
this happens to everyone at some point and it is better to just walk away from the deal and start over.
asofine was informed of a price, under 500, and went for a quote which came in at 3 times that amount.
no matter what happens now he is anchored to that price and works from there in all aspects. which is why he wants a break down of work, hours spent on this or that, all trying to understand why his 'known' price is so much different from the quoted price.
as an example, do a search for something you want buy, no matter how many prices come up at 50 bucks consumers get anchored to the low price that hits, say 44.99. that retailer might not even stock the item, or charge 15 for shipping and 5 for handling. still we get stuck on that low price and try to squeeze it out of other retailers.
or how many times have you seen someone try to sell their beat up unloved 911 for the same price good examples are trading? then they get pissed off when people try to explain why they are asking too much.
this happens to everyone at some point and it is better to just walk away from the deal and start over.
05-31-2012, 11:31 AM
#41
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As Adam has chosen to tell only his side of the story............I will now add mine for proper context.
What he fails to mention is I spent over a hour at my shop going over everything pertaining to making his car look beautiful again, as his car is dark colored (Midnight Blue) and being 16 years old it had more than a little "Patina" the car has severe marring and deep scratches, in addition the trim is dry, the rear OE badge needed to be replaced after it was removed then a new one affixed(Which is time consuming to do properly even with a template as I have done this many times).
I repeated answers to his questions three times while he was there in person, and I understand a certain level of education is needed to explain what a major paint correction detail will entail and I am happy to do this and do this often, but as I am experienced not only in my particular craft of the work I am also exprienced when someone is doing all they can to get a cheaper price.... in fact after the third time I went back over what, and why Adam said "I am not trying to be cheap, but I just need to understand exactly what you are doing as I may do some stuff now and other things later"
I went on to explain patiently again(As honestly I was slightly annoyed as we were going "Round and round") and I explained the price is based upon a hourly rate of $65.00 per hour and this many hours to do the job. I would say as I am extremely prideful of what leaves my shop, almost EVERY job I do goes over the time I quote as hidden things pop up and I do not charge more as I believe in sticking with a quote even sometimes when I am not profitable(Check my yelp reviews and a client chronicles this very thing).
This situation has everything to do with someone wanting everything for a cheaper price than quoted, and Adam was going to waste more time and I made a choice to not allow that to continue and he is now the "Scorned Women" and wants to hurt my reputation. If people want to take the word of someone who never even used my service......then so be it, my body of work speaks for itself.
Stealth 993 was the only guy in here who saw things even partly in a objective way, as he realizes what high end correction is all about.....high risk, and labor entensive. As for me being "Booked up" and not needing the job, I do not have that mindset ever as I am full of integrity and enjoy working on vehicles for over twenty years at a high level, I just saw and made the right choice obviously that Adam would be more trouble than it's worth and this is not in dispute.
What he fails to mention is I spent over a hour at my shop going over everything pertaining to making his car look beautiful again, as his car is dark colored (Midnight Blue) and being 16 years old it had more than a little "Patina" the car has severe marring and deep scratches, in addition the trim is dry, the rear OE badge needed to be replaced after it was removed then a new one affixed(Which is time consuming to do properly even with a template as I have done this many times).
I repeated answers to his questions three times while he was there in person, and I understand a certain level of education is needed to explain what a major paint correction detail will entail and I am happy to do this and do this often, but as I am experienced not only in my particular craft of the work I am also exprienced when someone is doing all they can to get a cheaper price.... in fact after the third time I went back over what, and why Adam said "I am not trying to be cheap, but I just need to understand exactly what you are doing as I may do some stuff now and other things later"
I went on to explain patiently again(As honestly I was slightly annoyed as we were going "Round and round") and I explained the price is based upon a hourly rate of $65.00 per hour and this many hours to do the job. I would say as I am extremely prideful of what leaves my shop, almost EVERY job I do goes over the time I quote as hidden things pop up and I do not charge more as I believe in sticking with a quote even sometimes when I am not profitable(Check my yelp reviews and a client chronicles this very thing).
This situation has everything to do with someone wanting everything for a cheaper price than quoted, and Adam was going to waste more time and I made a choice to not allow that to continue and he is now the "Scorned Women" and wants to hurt my reputation. If people want to take the word of someone who never even used my service......then so be it, my body of work speaks for itself.
Stealth 993 was the only guy in here who saw things even partly in a objective way, as he realizes what high end correction is all about.....high risk, and labor entensive. As for me being "Booked up" and not needing the job, I do not have that mindset ever as I am full of integrity and enjoy working on vehicles for over twenty years at a high level, I just saw and made the right choice obviously that Adam would be more trouble than it's worth and this is not in dispute.
05-31-2012, 11:55 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
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05-31-2012, 12:22 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
All, thanks for your input. Even though this has been a personally frustrating experience, I'm glad that this thread has at least been a for-the-most-part healthy dialog and not devolved into a pissing match.
As there has been some banter about the quote I requested, allow me to clarify. On-site, I told Robert that I was not interested in certain services (the engine bay cleaning, for example). I nonetheless said to him, "I'll tell you what. Why don't you put the engine bay cleaning - and the full suite of your services - on the quote anyhow and I'll get back to you letting you know precisely what I would like to move forward with it." I understand that some people don't like my posting of the email exchange, but I decided to post it so that people could see that my response to Robert was not rude or ill-tempered, but rather, a simple request saying, "OK, I want to proceed with A, B and C, can you give me a price quote for just those things?" This is exactly the expectation I set with Robert when we met in person. The only complicating factor was that I had to ask for a re-quote because the initial quote did not break down pricing by line item as I assumed it would. For whatever reason, that spooked Robert into thinking that I was going to nickel and dime him. I never expected the full suite of his services at an unreasonable "steal" price. The email clearly says, "is it reasonable to expect A, B and C to total close to $1,000 as opposed to $1,500?" You'd think that a request for a line item quote - coupled with that question - wouldn't be so offensive!
In any event, thanks all for your input, the dust has for the most part settled and it's clear where certain people stand on the issue!
EDIT: One final note - the question of whether I am a lousy, POS, haggling, time-wasting customer can be easily be put to rest by the fact that I have and will continue to do business with many indy shops in the area and users on this forum. This experience with Robert was the first - and only - time my business has ever been refused by a shop-owner. That ought to say something.
As there has been some banter about the quote I requested, allow me to clarify. On-site, I told Robert that I was not interested in certain services (the engine bay cleaning, for example). I nonetheless said to him, "I'll tell you what. Why don't you put the engine bay cleaning - and the full suite of your services - on the quote anyhow and I'll get back to you letting you know precisely what I would like to move forward with it." I understand that some people don't like my posting of the email exchange, but I decided to post it so that people could see that my response to Robert was not rude or ill-tempered, but rather, a simple request saying, "OK, I want to proceed with A, B and C, can you give me a price quote for just those things?" This is exactly the expectation I set with Robert when we met in person. The only complicating factor was that I had to ask for a re-quote because the initial quote did not break down pricing by line item as I assumed it would. For whatever reason, that spooked Robert into thinking that I was going to nickel and dime him. I never expected the full suite of his services at an unreasonable "steal" price. The email clearly says, "is it reasonable to expect A, B and C to total close to $1,000 as opposed to $1,500?" You'd think that a request for a line item quote - coupled with that question - wouldn't be so offensive!
In any event, thanks all for your input, the dust has for the most part settled and it's clear where certain people stand on the issue!
EDIT: One final note - the question of whether I am a lousy, POS, haggling, time-wasting customer can be easily be put to rest by the fact that I have and will continue to do business with many indy shops in the area and users on this forum. This experience with Robert was the first - and only - time my business has ever been refused by a shop-owner. That ought to say something.
05-31-2012, 12:28 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Auto Concierge might do great work, but this is hilarious. He has now wasted much more time here responding to posts than it would have taken to simply quote the work correctly (as the customer was asking for). This isn't rocket science...its paint correction and an interior detail. I would think anyone spending 1500 bucks on something would want to do their homework a little. Its apparent from his Avatar he is not "cheap" but rather he probably just wants to ensure his money is being well spent...not a tough concept. All in all, you both sound like fairly reasonable people, so its too bad you couldnt work this out privately. As the business, even if I decided I wouldnt take on this client, I would have done it in a much more appropriate way and not let it affect future business.
05-31-2012, 12:30 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Auto Concierge might do great work, but this is hilarious. He has now wasted much more time here responding to posts than it would have taken to simply quote the work correctly (as the customer was asking for). This isn't rocket science...its paint correction and an interior detail. I would think anyone spending 1500 bucks on something would want to do their homework a little. Its apparent from his Avatar he is not "cheap" but rather he probably just wants to ensure his money is being well spent...not a tough concept. All in all, you both sound like fairly reasonable people, so its too bad you couldnt work this out privately. As the business, even if I decided I wouldnt take on this client, I would have done it in a much more appropriate way and not let it affect future business.
