Argh - can't decide H&R or M030 springs for Bilstein HD
12-07-2012, 11:22 PM
#31
Race Director
H&R are stiffer and shorter; I would go M030 as a daily driver; a great match with the HD and very suitable for street & track.
12-08-2012, 10:53 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
I replaced my OEM suspension with the M030 springs, sway bars, Bilstein HD's, and a Schnell strut brace five years ago and the ride is great. Not harsh at all in my opinion but handles light years better than before.
Also -- new bushings (if not already installed) are critical in a suspension upgrade. Contact Chris Walrod for those.
My installer told me also that the way the car is aligned will have an effect on how it rides. He offered to align mine more for the track or as a daily driver; I chose the daily driver option.
Also -- new bushings (if not already installed) are critical in a suspension upgrade. Contact Chris Walrod for those.
My installer told me also that the way the car is aligned will have an effect on how it rides. He offered to align mine more for the track or as a daily driver; I chose the daily driver option.
12-08-2012, 02:55 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Fox 3:10056842
I replaced my OEM suspension with the M030 springs, sway bars, Bilstein HD's, and a Schnell strut brace five years ago and the ride is great. Not harsh at all in my opinion but handles light years better than before.
Also -- new bushings (if not already installed) are critical in a suspension upgrade. Contact Chris Walrod for those.
My installer told me also that the way the car is aligned will have an effect on how it rides. He offered to align mine more for the track or as a daily driver; I chose the daily driver option.
Also -- new bushings (if not already installed) are critical in a suspension upgrade. Contact Chris Walrod for those.
My installer told me also that the way the car is aligned will have an effect on how it rides. He offered to align mine more for the track or as a daily driver; I chose the daily driver option.
Definitely replacing the control arm bushings with the Walrod bushings - and also changing the engine mounts to the RS mounts.
I'm getting the aftermarket carbon strut brace that Gert sells rather than the Porsche strut brace with the Porsche price...
12-08-2012, 08:38 PM
#34
Race Director
If you're going to do all that stuff you should definitely consider the M030 sways or some turbo sways. Made a BIG difference IMHO. They can be found used too for decent $.
12-08-2012, 09:44 PM
#36
I had m030 and HD's and wouldn't do it again. Too harsh on city streets. I like the Koni FSD's but will have to wait to see the long term results. BTW these Koni FSD's are used in many new production cars including the Fiat 500 Abarth
12-09-2012, 01:02 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My reading indicates that stiffer sway bars definitely adds to hardness in the ride quality - so my thought was that I might retain some give in the new set-up by staying with the current ones.
12-09-2012, 02:24 AM
#38
Race Director
But with all the other neat stuff you're doing, you just might love how it corners.
And one more observation from personal experience: if you really want to see what the car can do make sure you have tires that can keep up with your suspension components. I did a lot of stuff to my suspension but it has been a revelation to have really good tires on the car.
12-09-2012, 06:48 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dr. No:10058572
This is true.
But with all the other neat stuff you're doing, you just might love how it corners.
And one more observation from personal experience: if you really want to see what the car can do make sure you have tires that can keep up with your suspension components. I did a lot of stuff to my suspension but it has been a revelation to have really good tires on the car.
12-09-2012, 01:30 PM
#40
Race Director
I just put on Toyo Proxes R1Rs. 225 in front; 255 in rear. Massive improvement over my two prior sets of Bridgestones (S-03 and re050). I'm sure they won't wear as long, but they make the car a lot more fun. When time comes for tires, I'd suggest you poke around in the autocross forum here and see what the favorites are. That's what I did and it worked out well; and probably $300 cheaper installed than the Michelin PS2s that would fit.
Let us know how it all works out!
Let us know how it all works out!
12-09-2012, 04:24 PM
#41
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are slightly confused, Jeff. In order to understand that let's look at Bilsteins recent history on naming their shocks:
1. They had two shocks identical in every respect except the actual tube length. One was called HD (longer), one Sport (shorter) in US. To make it confusing US-HD was called "Sport" in Europe and US-Sport was called "Sprint". Again, the two shocks were the same - same monotube technology, same valving.
2. Bilstein recently renamed everything. US-marked HD is now B6, Sport is now B8, PSS10 is now B16 and something called B12 (pro-kit) is listed but I personally don't know what it is (Steve W. or Bill V. probably do).
So... Sport/Sprint was designed to be used on "lowered" cars. In case of a 993 even with perches down to RS height shorter shocks were not needed. That's why HD has been used for the last 15+ years in this application. I've had HDs on both my 993 and Sport (now B8) on my old E30. I can tell you that valving there was also slightly wrong
PS. You are welcome, Bilstein. It's great that you are doing your marketing job so well that most of your customers are royally confused.
1. They had two shocks identical in every respect except the actual tube length. One was called HD (longer), one Sport (shorter) in US. To make it confusing US-HD was called "Sport" in Europe and US-Sport was called "Sprint". Again, the two shocks were the same - same monotube technology, same valving.
2. Bilstein recently renamed everything. US-marked HD is now B6, Sport is now B8, PSS10 is now B16 and something called B12 (pro-kit) is listed but I personally don't know what it is (Steve W. or Bill V. probably do).
So... Sport/Sprint was designed to be used on "lowered" cars. In case of a 993 even with perches down to RS height shorter shocks were not needed. That's why HD has been used for the last 15+ years in this application. I've had HDs on both my 993 and Sport (now B8) on my old E30. I can tell you that valving there was also slightly wrong
PS. You are welcome, Bilstein. It's great that you are doing your marketing job so well that most of your customers are royally confused.
12-09-2012, 04:29 PM
#42
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B6 S4 is downright supple compared to HDs with on a 993. After owning 993s with HD with both H&R and M030 I agree with more advanced souls here in saying that HDs are just valved wrong for either of these springs. Oh, and i have no idea what they are valved properly for.
Above conclusion is brought to you by my kidneys used to a 1000 kg Miata on 14kg/9kg springs. You know what? Miata is _much_ more supple and compliant on the street due to properly valved shocks.
But if you are only choosing from HDs, H&Rs and M030, go with M030. The ride is overly firn but not bone crunching. It's just not doing the car or handling any favors. If you have a chance to re-valve HDs by someone who knows what they are doing, I'd definitely recommend that.
Above conclusion is brought to you by my kidneys used to a 1000 kg Miata on 14kg/9kg springs. You know what? Miata is _much_ more supple and compliant on the street due to properly valved shocks.
But if you are only choosing from HDs, H&Rs and M030, go with M030. The ride is overly firn but not bone crunching. It's just not doing the car or handling any favors. If you have a chance to re-valve HDs by someone who knows what they are doing, I'd definitely recommend that.
Nile13, as the resident Miata-expert, perhaps you can comment on Fatcatmotorsports?
12-09-2012, 05:59 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Rainforest (Vancouver, BC)
Posts: 7,518
Received 987 Likes
on
437 Posts
I've got H&R springs with Bilstein HDs on my 97 and in all honesty I'd try the M030 springs (or the M033) next time. H&Rs are slightly lower but are not a good match with the HDs. This is just my experience.
12-09-2012, 06:43 PM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
On the subject of revalving Bilstein shocks, I started a thread a while ago to little response. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...s-at-ttac.html
Nile13, as the resident Miata-expert, perhaps you can comment on Fatcatmotorsports?
Nile13, as the resident Miata-expert, perhaps you can comment on Fatcatmotorsports?
