stickypatch

My last two cars before the 993 were both Audi quattros - a B6 S4 and an A4 DTM edition.

So, I traded in the A4 DTM on my '94 C2 tipo in September last year and promptly put Hankook K110s all around - with the recommended 225 on the front. Inflated the tyres to the recommended psi of 44 rear / 36 front.

The car took a little bit of getting used to after two quattros - an entirely different beast from the 4WD Audis with the added incentive for taking things quietly of knowing there were no electronic stability controls to save my posterior.

I don't rate my pedalling skills as anything special, but I am well aware of the importance of good throttle control and the effect of transferring weight properly. I have not experienced the understeer from my 993 that I read about here from time to time.

Is this because I haven't driven it hard enough? I haven't done any DE days yet (looking forward to it though) but I brake into corners, try my utmost to be smooth with steering inputs, and come carefully onto the throttle when I decide to put power down.

So as a general question, is understeer something you experience when a plan isn't coming together in a corner and you need to deviate from the usual sequence?

Bill Verburg

Your not driving hard enough, stock 993 has a lot of under-steer that is very difficult to get rid of, but then every S4 I owned was also a big under-steerer too

M. Schneider

Our ole Audi S6 (UrS6) Avant's dynamic of the day was,,, understeer at every level, basically independent of the throttle position. But then again never had a day long DE in with the Frau's Avant.
The 993s pronouced understeer creeps in pretty late, 5/8th, with speed however resonably predictable. Hope that assist's.

Stuttgart951

You don't sound like an idiot at all. With the majority of the weight behind the rear wheels, understeer is normal, under most conditions, with the factory setup.

Attend a DE or two to get a feel for the car and how you'd like it adjusted - then adjust and enjoy (don't lift).

element

you can dial it out.. alignment + sway bars will adjust the grip levels of each tire (so does tire pressure).. As the others pointed out the stock setup has understeer built in for general public safety.

The dynamics of the 911 are also a lot different.. you can go heavier\deeper on the brakes with more weight over the rear tires and get on the throttle earlier with LOTS of grip under acceleration.

DE days and suspension tweaking is a good\safe way to go!

I currently have a 1/2 way to RS alignment.. I didn't want to go too extreme, but am already for more camber. I will be adding sway bars to help turn the car as well.

have fun!

phil.

Kika

What size did you put in rear 265?

There are a lot of discussions about tire pressures, but in general, the recommended pressures are on the high side. certainly 44 in the rear is high.

You will find that 911s are particularly sensitive to tire pressure, so you will want to monitor them carefully until you find out what works/feels best for you.

There is tons of advice here, so you are in the right place.
I would recommend you drop the rear to 38 (cold) and adjust from there.

This is a very good resource as well: http://www.nyracer.com/overunder.htm

oh, and it is customary to post pictures of your car

Welcome!

berni29

Hi There

Are your wheels 17" or 18"? My 993 does not understeer much IMHO but there again it is well set up and I do not really push it hard.

Berni

Stuttgart951

+1

On cold, street tires, I'm 36/38, 235/285 and, for the track, typically adjust, as conditions require, to hit no more than that at the end of a session (read: hot) on 225/265's.

If you like, I can post my numbers later tonight or tomorrow. I find the setup to be a good compromise for a dual-use car but that is obviously a personal preference.

Bill Verburg

when powering out of a medium to low speed turn stock 993 will exhibit a lot of under-steer, especially w/ a good lsd

to get rid of it I had to use wider front wheels, adjustable sways and much stiffer front springs relative to the back, much stiffer suspension all around

stickypatch

I guess this is it - I've been very careful with the car when cornering hard - or what feels to me like hard cornering.

I look forward to getting on a track with an instructor to get a feel for what the limits of grip might be.

stickypatch

The car has 17" Targa wheels with 255 rear and 225 front.

I decided to run the 44 psi at the rear because I read about the lack of firmness in the Hankook sidewalls and also read that a higher pressure ameliorates this a little - plus I actually like a firm/hard ride (masochist?).

Were I to reduce the rear pressure to 38 psi cold, what should I expect to experience in term of handling under spirited driving?

pp000830

I do not experience understeer on my 993. However with the 17 Inch wheels there isn't a lot of tire roll-over telling you where the limits of grip are. My 86' with 16" wheel gave lots of feedback near the edge and yes on that car it was always understeer.
Andy

Juha G

To properly rotate a 911 one must brake deep into the corner and then throttle out. At this point your street tires will be screaming like hell and you need to modulate the throttle to keep the tail behind you, if neither, then you are just driving too slow and/or the car understeers.
Since you are new to the 993, a DE is definately the right place to get familiar with the car. Not on the streets.

And like others said, tire width, pressure, suspension settings, swaybar settings (if adjustable), will be the keys for dialing out understeer.

For scientific definition ofundersteer vs. Oversteer, please see my sig.

M. Schneider

Freak'in classic ! Too funny. The Top Gear fella's had a similair explaination as well.....

"Understeer is when you see the tree you are hitting, if you only hear the tree then it was oversteer." (Walter Röhrl)

kjr914

+993
Add to that a Performance Driving School or Autocross. AX is an even better starting point IMHO than DE. AX allows you to learn at low enough speeds that things are "safer", things don't happen as quickly due to lower speeds and you can exceed the cars limits (more likely, your own) without consequences.