Lemons to Lemonade
04-23-2014, 07:10 PM
#46
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Great, thanks for clarification... would like to think I am hardcore, but clearly not 
04-23-2014, 07:34 PM
#47
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Elephant will sell a partial set.. I bought 4 pcs when updating mine a couple years ago.
The other thing to keep in mind is that by stiffening those bushings & reducing the KT effect, you're going to make the car *more* likely to swap ends.. the passive rear steering is meant to stabilize the rear end, particularly on the street where you aren't flirting w/ the limit continuously.
The other thing to keep in mind is that by stiffening those bushings & reducing the KT effect, you're going to make the car *more* likely to swap ends.. the passive rear steering is meant to stabilize the rear end, particularly on the street where you aren't flirting w/ the limit continuously.
On more thought on this as I appreciate your response concerning handling characteristics...
My goal here: I am working towards making the car as tight as possible on for spirited canyon carving, while still being somewhat comfortable/compliant on "city" streets.
Are you thinking RS arms/ Elephant are too hard/overkill for street use with the PSS10s... from my limited experience the bushings didn't seem to have as dramatic an effect as other items, like springs, tire diameter, etc.
That said, I do want to replace the 20 year old bushes while in there, even if just with new original issue 993 parts, so I can drive another 20 years before thinking about it. Maybe the PSS10's are enough of an upgrade for me with all stock bushes.
Open to thoughts and if this course will contribute to an overall harshness, then maybe this is not the right plan and I stick to the original parts vs the RS. I'm not really considering the Elephant option further right now. The RS solution only changes a few bushings and in my current situation, really only the rear A-arms, unless I find the KT's.
Does anyone have experience before/after with the RS rear end Bushes vs Stock in terms of contributing to harshness/drivability?
04-23-2014, 07:43 PM
#48
E...
The other thing to keep in mind is that by stiffening those bushings & reducing the KT effect, you're going to make the car *more* likely to swap ends.. the passive rear steering is meant to stabilize the rear end, particularly on the street where you aren't flirting w/ the limit continuously.
The other thing to keep in mind is that by stiffening those bushings & reducing the KT effect, you're going to make the car *more* likely to swap ends.. the passive rear steering is meant to stabilize the rear end, particularly on the street where you aren't flirting w/ the limit continuously.
Apparently in your mind the RS is some sort of an accident waiting to happen,
I can speak for my own and several local 993s that have gone this route, the car is much more stable and easier to drive fast, and by fast I mean speeds that will get you arrested if done on public roads, more moderate use is even more inside the enveloe
04-23-2014, 11:28 PM
#49
On more thought on this as I appreciate your response concerning handling characteristics...
My goal here: I am working towards making the car as tight as possible on for spirited canyon carving, while still being somewhat comfortable/compliant on "city" streets.
Are you thinking RS arms/ Elephant are too hard/overkill for street use with the PSS10s... from my limited experience the bushings didn't seem to have as dramatic an effect as other items, like springs, tire diameter, etc.
That said, I do want to replace the 20 year old bushes while in there, even if just with new original issue 993 parts, so I can drive another 20 years before thinking about it. Maybe the PSS10's are enough of an upgrade for me with all stock bushes.
Open to thoughts and if this course will contribute to an overall harshness, then maybe this is not the right plan and I stick to the original parts vs the RS. I'm not really considering the Elephant option further right now. The RS solution only changes a few bushings and in my current situation, really only the rear A-arms, unless I find the KT's.
Does anyone have experience before/after with the RS rear end Bushes vs Stock in terms of contributing to harshness/drivability?
My goal here: I am working towards making the car as tight as possible on for spirited canyon carving, while still being somewhat comfortable/compliant on "city" streets.
Are you thinking RS arms/ Elephant are too hard/overkill for street use with the PSS10s... from my limited experience the bushings didn't seem to have as dramatic an effect as other items, like springs, tire diameter, etc.
That said, I do want to replace the 20 year old bushes while in there, even if just with new original issue 993 parts, so I can drive another 20 years before thinking about it. Maybe the PSS10's are enough of an upgrade for me with all stock bushes.
Open to thoughts and if this course will contribute to an overall harshness, then maybe this is not the right plan and I stick to the original parts vs the RS. I'm not really considering the Elephant option further right now. The RS solution only changes a few bushings and in my current situation, really only the rear A-arms, unless I find the KT's.
Does anyone have experience before/after with the RS rear end Bushes vs Stock in terms of contributing to harshness/drivability?
pure hysterical nonsense!
Apparently in your mind the RS is some sort of an accident waiting to happen,
I can speak for my own and several local 993s that have gone this route, the car is much more stable and easier to drive fast, and by fast I mean speeds that will get you arrested if done on public roads, more moderate use is even more inside the enveloe
Apparently in your mind the RS is some sort of an accident waiting to happen,
I can speak for my own and several local 993s that have gone this route, the car is much more stable and easier to drive fast, and by fast I mean speeds that will get you arrested if done on public roads, more moderate use is even more inside the enveloe
04-24-2014, 01:47 AM
#50
Former Vendor
Yes, the sport rubber bushes are perfect for a street and even for a heavily tracked car, this the way the Cups were done, Despite all the people that blindly use pu it is not a good material to use for bushes, it's sole plus is that it is cheap, and so is used in lieu of more appropriate materials.
the RS used sport rubber bushes on the trailing leg of the track arm, the leading leg has a sealed monoball joint on both the Rs and normal, The RS also used a sport rubber bush on the kt arm. These two bushes minimized the rear steer characteristic of a stock 993 that so many of use detest. All the other rear bushes are the same on RS and normal, but they do deteriorate w/ age, particularly the toe arm.
In front the RS used sport rubber on the trailing arm and the softer street rubber on the leading arm, I'd use sport rubber on both, it is really the best way to go there
the RS used sport rubber bushes on the trailing leg of the track arm, the leading leg has a sealed monoball joint on both the Rs and normal, The RS also used a sport rubber bush on the kt arm. These two bushes minimized the rear steer characteristic of a stock 993 that so many of use detest. All the other rear bushes are the same on RS and normal, but they do deteriorate w/ age, particularly the toe arm.
In front the RS used sport rubber on the trailing arm and the softer street rubber on the leading arm, I'd use sport rubber on both, it is really the best way to go there
You may call us to buy a partial kit if you don't want the full kit quantity listed on our website, we'll be happy to break it out. You can also enter fractional quantities in the shopping cart at checkout eg. .5 kits.
04-24-2014, 01:55 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
If'n it were me with this availability issue, I would go Elephant Sport (RS) or Walrod at front control arms, and Elephant Sport at the lower rear track arms and rear kinematic arms to be same as RS. Cheaper and available.
If I had worn rear track arm forward bearings, I would buy new standard track arms and install Elephant Sport bushes.
If you want to go a bit more than RS at the rear then use the Elephant Sport in all the rear pivot points and use the whole kit they send you.
If I had worn rear track arm forward bearings, I would buy new standard track arms and install Elephant Sport bushes.
If you want to go a bit more than RS at the rear then use the Elephant Sport in all the rear pivot points and use the whole kit they send you.
04-24-2014, 02:56 PM
#52
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Interesting
Maybe this is a better option depending on Elephant turn around time and condition of ball joints... definitely cheaper even with Elephant doing install.
I didn't take a hard look at ball joints, but they seemed tight, 62k on car... what is a real indicator of wear on these parts, looseness? And what is expected lifespan of these joints? And can the boot be replaced? Pretty sure they are all intact.
04-24-2014, 02:58 PM
#53
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TURN AROUND TIME?
We have sport hardness rubber, OEM hardness rubber, and spherical bearings. We can provide these in any combination desired.
You may call us to buy a partial kit if you don't want the full kit quantity listed on our website, we'll be happy to break it out. You can also enter fractional quantities in the shopping cart at checkout eg. .5 kits.
You may call us to buy a partial kit if you don't want the full kit quantity listed on our website, we'll be happy to break it out. You can also enter fractional quantities in the shopping cart at checkout eg. .5 kits.
If parts are sent to you by Monday, what is shop time to press these in.
Will email you as well.
THX
04-24-2014, 03:31 PM
#54
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With this thinking, is there any reason not to use all Elephant at rear? More harshness or will it be noticeable?
Maybe this is a better option depending on Elephant turn around time and condition of ball joints... definitely cheaper even with Elephant doing install.
I didn't take a hard look at ball joints, but they seemed tight, 62k on car... what is a real indicator of wear on these parts, looseness? And what is expected lifespan of these joints? And can the boot be replaced? Pretty sure they are all intact.
Maybe this is a better option depending on Elephant turn around time and condition of ball joints... definitely cheaper even with Elephant doing install.
I didn't take a hard look at ball joints, but they seemed tight, 62k on car... what is a real indicator of wear on these parts, looseness? And what is expected lifespan of these joints? And can the boot be replaced? Pretty sure they are all intact.
The forward bearing in the track arm is a monoball type bearing and if you can feel it rattle around when rocking the arm in the car or on the bench it needs replacement. It should be a tight pivot with no play.
04-24-2014, 05:34 PM
#55
Former Vendor
04-24-2014, 05:45 PM
#56
With this thinking, is there any reason not to use all Elephant at rear? More harshness or will it be noticeable?
Maybe this is a better option depending on Elephant turn around time and condition of ball joints... definitely cheaper even with Elephant doing install.
I didn't take a hard look at ball joints, but they seemed tight, 62k on car... what is a real indicator of wear on these parts, looseness? And what is expected lifespan of these joints? And can the boot be replaced? Pretty sure they are all intact.
Maybe this is a better option depending on Elephant turn around time and condition of ball joints... definitely cheaper even with Elephant doing install.
I didn't take a hard look at ball joints, but they seemed tight, 62k on car... what is a real indicator of wear on these parts, looseness? And what is expected lifespan of these joints? And can the boot be replaced? Pretty sure they are all intact.
I would buy the RS rear track arm to get the new ball joint at the outer end and new mono-ball joint at the leading position, I find that these leading position joints get loose quickly even at under 20k mi.
Use the Elephant sports on the KT arm and leave the others stock as long as they are in good condition, maybe put the sports on the toe arm in lieu of mono-***** there, the only other thing to do is install solid sides but only on a car that is lower than RS height
04-24-2014, 05:53 PM
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04-24-2014, 06:17 PM
#58
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I followed Bill's advice on the front end, and I could not be happier. My car has 110k miles. Although the stock bushings looked fine, there was some play when using a small crow bar on them (I'd say 1/8 to 1/4" deflection).
I installed Elephant Sport bushings on my front LCAs. I am extremely happy with the results. I can feel the difference, and the car is only driven on the street.
I did not notice any decrease in ride quality, but the steering is much more precise. Overall, a great improvement.
As with any car, clocking and pressing in new bushings is a PITA and it requires some ingenuity, but the result is worth the trouble. (PM me for pics of my rig)
I think it is worth paying someone if you don't have a press.
The rear end is my next project...
I installed Elephant Sport bushings on my front LCAs. I am extremely happy with the results. I can feel the difference, and the car is only driven on the street.
I did not notice any decrease in ride quality, but the steering is much more precise. Overall, a great improvement.
As with any car, clocking and pressing in new bushings is a PITA and it requires some ingenuity, but the result is worth the trouble. (PM me for pics of my rig)
I think it is worth paying someone if you don't have a press.
The rear end is my next project...
04-24-2014, 08:07 PM
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In Sync
I would buy the RS rear track arm to get the new ball joint at the outer end and new mono-ball joint at the leading position, I find that these leading position joints get loose quickly even at under 20k mi.
Use the Elephant sports on the KT arm and leave the others stock as long as they are in good condition, maybe put the sports on the toe arm in lieu of mono-***** there, the only other thing to do is install solid sides but only on a car that is lower than RS height
Use the Elephant sports on the KT arm and leave the others stock as long as they are in good condition, maybe put the sports on the toe arm in lieu of mono-***** there, the only other thing to do is install solid sides but only on a car that is lower than RS height
2 - New RS A-arms direct from Porsche/Germany, as not avail here.
2 - KT Arms (Non-RS) - Either use my existing stock, if ball joint is good, or completely new arms - then have Elephant Sport bushings installed to replicate RS spec, since the RS KT Arms are no longer available/on indefinite backorder.
If I go to new on the KT arm, I will likely source from Pelican for cost, substantially cheaper than Porsche for this particular arm, for some reason? Since the bushings go anyway is there a reason not to use the new OEM TRW's vs Porsche branded?
The rest standard Porsche control arms (per the RS spec) and all new hardware, direct from Porsche, as you specced in your Blue sheet.
This is what I am currently ready to do, have priced and sourced.
Did I miss something?