YART (yet another re-gear thread)
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
YART (yet another re-gear thread)
I am looking for forum input on re-gearing a G50/20. I have read various threads on the topic and reached out via PM to a few individuals. Regarding the latter, my posting a thread on the forum is not intended to usurp your opinion in any manner. Rather than pestering you with repeated PMs, posting a thread here will allow me to add updates as my decision making process evolves.
The facts
The issue(s)
I am looking for input on the options I am considering - all input is welcome and thanks in advance
My options
For reference here are the stock G50/20 ratios
1st - 1 : 3.82
2nd - 1 : 2.05
3rd - 1 : 1.41
4th - 1 : 1.12
5th - 1 : 0.92
6th - 1 : 0.78
Option 1: swap 2nd - 5th to G50/21 ratios
2nd - 1 : 2.15 <-- G50/21
3rd - 1 : 1.56 <-- G50/21
4th - 1 : 1.24 <-- G50/21
5th - 1 : 1.03 <-- G50/21
6th - 1 : 0.78
Option 2: mix and match 2nd - 5th from G50/21 and G97/90 (2007 GT3)
2nd - 1 : 2.15 <-- G50/21
3rd - 1 : 1.64 <-- G97/90
4th - 1 : 1.29 <-- G97/90
5th - 1 : 1.03 <-- G50/21
6th - 1 : 0.78
Option 3: select from Matt's extensive list of gears
2nd - 1 : 2.18 <-- Guard
3rd - 1 : 1.60 <-- Guard
4th - 1 : 1.25 <-- Guard
5th - 1 : 1.00 <-- Guard
6th - 1 : 0.78
Thanks
/alex
The facts
- early 95 993, with stock G50/20, with 2nd gear separable from the main shaft (per my gearbox serial number)
- final drive ratio 1:3.444 (stock)
- I run ~25" diameter tires front/rear
- mostly backroads driving, followed by freeway crusing; no to very little track
The issue(s)
- I find myself either winding the motor to 6,000+ RPM in 2nd for extended periods of time, which feels unnecessary or just a tad below 4,000 RPM in 3rd which is below the sweet spot in the power bad
- I want to make 3rd gear more useable for my style of driving without sacrificing freeway cruising
- I want to achieve the above goals cost effectively - I am therefore leaning toward swapping out 2nd - 5th only, leaving 1st and 6th the stock G50/20 ratios
I am looking for input on the options I am considering - all input is welcome and thanks in advance
My options
For reference here are the stock G50/20 ratios
1st - 1 : 3.82
2nd - 1 : 2.05
3rd - 1 : 1.41
4th - 1 : 1.12
5th - 1 : 0.92
6th - 1 : 0.78
Option 1: swap 2nd - 5th to G50/21 ratios
- that seems to be the most straightforward, and possibly (?) the most cost-effective solution
- the resultant ratios would be
2nd - 1 : 2.15 <-- G50/21
3rd - 1 : 1.56 <-- G50/21
4th - 1 : 1.24 <-- G50/21
5th - 1 : 1.03 <-- G50/21
6th - 1 : 0.78
Option 2: mix and match 2nd - 5th from G50/21 and G97/90 (2007 GT3)
- this further optimizes 2nd/3rd and 3rd/4th spacing
- however, and I admit I don't yet understand all the details, per some threads by Matt Monson, this may either not be possible, or require adapters (on account of a) different ID for idler gears b) different width for gears and c) asymmetrical synchro teeth)
- this seems to be the 2nd-most cost-effective solution (give the cost of adapters, etc.)
- the resultant ratios would be
2nd - 1 : 2.15 <-- G50/21
3rd - 1 : 1.64 <-- G97/90
4th - 1 : 1.29 <-- G97/90
5th - 1 : 1.03 <-- G50/21
6th - 1 : 0.78
Option 3: select from Matt's extensive list of gears
- truly customizable ratios
- top-quality gears
- both of the above probably at additional cost over the previous options
- the ratios would be
2nd - 1 : 2.18 <-- Guard
3rd - 1 : 1.60 <-- Guard
4th - 1 : 1.25 <-- Guard
5th - 1 : 1.00 <-- Guard
6th - 1 : 0.78
Thanks
/alex
#2
Drifting
Would be interesting to see associated cost with each choice and other "while-in-there" parts.
Given that most cost is in labor I would get the best gearing that fits your needs (i.e. fix the gaps)
I have G21 and my issue is more with 1-2 gap. The 3rd is still kind of tall, although I like it for driving around town.
Guards gearing is not far off from G21. I would shorten 3,4.5 more than that, if possible.
Given that most cost is in labor I would get the best gearing that fits your needs (i.e. fix the gaps)
I have G21 and my issue is more with 1-2 gap. The 3rd is still kind of tall, although I like it for driving around town.
Guards gearing is not far off from G21. I would shorten 3,4.5 more than that, if possible.
#3
Rennlist Member
Here's my re-gear stack that I did approx 10yrs ago. Guard gears and steel synchro's
2nd - 2.25
3rd - 1.65
4th - 1.286
5th - 1.040
6th - 0.821
I would recommend also switching 6th. I switched it to the Euro Ratio. Perfect now use it almost all the time. Perfect at 70mph and higher. The US 6th is pathetically low.
Have fun!!
2nd - 2.25
3rd - 1.65
4th - 1.286
5th - 1.040
6th - 0.821
I would recommend also switching 6th. I switched it to the Euro Ratio. Perfect now use it almost all the time. Perfect at 70mph and higher. The US 6th is pathetically low.
Have fun!!
#4
Rennlist Member
Mine is similar to os993. I have an RS lwf and clutch. Engine revs very quick and rev matching down shifts is improved. All my components came from Matt at Guard. I went in for the mainshaft, gears 1-6, and lsd. In my opinion it's one of the best performance modifications one can do to a 993. The car just pulls and pulls, it's truly a pleasure to drive.
1st - 3.500
2nd - 2.294
3rd - 1.650
4th - 1.286
5th - 1.040
6th - 0.854
1st - 3.500
2nd - 2.294
3rd - 1.650
4th - 1.286
5th - 1.040
6th - 0.854
#5
Rennlist Member
Mine is similar to os993. I have an RS lwf and clutch. Engine revs very quick and rev matching down shifts is improved. All my components came from Matt at Guard. I went in for the mainshaft, gears 1-6, and lsd. In my opinion it's one of the best performance modifications one can do to a 993. The car just pulls and pulls, it's truly a pleasure to drive.
1st - 3.500
2nd - 2.294
3rd - 1.650
4th - 1.286
5th - 1.040
6th - 0.854
1st - 3.500
2nd - 2.294
3rd - 1.650
4th - 1.286
5th - 1.040
6th - 0.854
A great stack of ratios. Very usable for daily street driving, fun, and great for autocrossing (where you live in 2nd and 3rd gear) and track driving (mine was aligned particularly for Thunderhill, here in the Bay Area, but does great at other locations as well).
Not the cheapest thing to do (did it before kids when there was more disposable income, haha), but as noted, a GREAT upgrade that is immediate and justifiable.
Keep up posted on your decision.
#6
Nordschleife Master
Hello Alex,
Got your emails. Still digging out from long weekend and stopped by rl on my lunch. I'll answer you this afternoon and you can paste and post whichever pieces you feel are useful for others as youceducate yourself.
Regards,
Matt
Got your emails. Still digging out from long weekend and stopped by rl on my lunch. I'll answer you this afternoon and you can paste and post whichever pieces you feel are useful for others as youceducate yourself.
Regards,
Matt
#7
Pro
Thread Starter
I definitely will - I have reached out to Sunset and Matt to get input on availability, feasibility, gotchas, etc.
Agreed on cost likely being a bit "gulp-worthy" but OTOH, better performance without jeopardizing passing emissions (a must here in Kalifornia) feels like a win to me.
Agreed on cost likely being a bit "gulp-worthy" but OTOH, better performance without jeopardizing passing emissions (a must here in Kalifornia) feels like a win to me.
Trending Topics
#8
Rennlist Member
Indeed! Very similar. And I also did the RS LWF and Clutch. Plus the RS tranny and motor mounts.
A great stack of ratios. Very usable for daily street driving, fun, and great for autocrossing (where you live in 2nd and 3rd gear) and track driving (mine was aligned particularly for Thunderhill, here in the Bay Area, but does great at other locations as well).
Not the cheapest thing to do (did it before kids when there was more disposable income, haha), but as noted, a GREAT upgrade that is immediate and justifiable.
Keep up posted on your decision.
A great stack of ratios. Very usable for daily street driving, fun, and great for autocrossing (where you live in 2nd and 3rd gear) and track driving (mine was aligned particularly for Thunderhill, here in the Bay Area, but does great at other locations as well).
Not the cheapest thing to do (did it before kids when there was more disposable income, haha), but as noted, a GREAT upgrade that is immediate and justifiable.
Keep up posted on your decision.
Last edited by Jlaa; 09-06-2016 at 06:55 PM. Reason: typos
#10
Rennlist Member
Well basing it on my F355 which I feel has perfect gearing I went with option 3 and chose each ratio to what I thought would be ideal. (just a bit shorter due to less rpm and power) Ended up with-
1st- 3.167
2nd- 2.25
3rd- 1.65
4th- 1.28
5th- 1.04
6th- .867
That would be ideal for me personally. Only question is cost and how loud are the gears?
Oh, chart of the F355 vs above re-gear if interested-
1st- 3.167
2nd- 2.25
3rd- 1.65
4th- 1.28
5th- 1.04
6th- .867
That would be ideal for me personally. Only question is cost and how loud are the gears?
Oh, chart of the F355 vs above re-gear if interested-
#11
Well basing it on my F355 which I feel has perfect gearing I went with option 3 and chose each ratio to what I thought would be ideal. (just a bit shorter due to less rpm and power) Ended up with-
1st- 3.167
2nd- 2.25
3rd- 1.65
4th- 1.28
5th- 1.04
6th- .867
That would be ideal for me personally. Only question is cost and how loud are the gears?
Oh, chart of the F355 vs above re-gear if interested-
1st- 3.167
2nd- 2.25
3rd- 1.65
4th- 1.28
5th- 1.04
6th- .867
That would be ideal for me personally. Only question is cost and how loud are the gears?
Oh, chart of the F355 vs above re-gear if interested-
I have a g50/31 in my car and love the gearing. I wouldn't change a thing. It's perfect.
#12
Rennlist Member
Argh. I'm missing the option where I have an F355 parked next to my 993. What does it take for me to get this option? Does Sunset offer a discount?
:-) :-) :-)
:-) :-) :-)
#13
Rennlist Member
Slightly different but...
it has been working for me for over 2 years, since early 2015. I never really jump on the car in first gear so I had an impossible time talking myself into a mainsheet where I could gave 1st and 2nd gear crafted for me
1st 3:818 Stock
2nd 2:048 Stock
3rd: 1:560 G50/21?...1:522 is g50/31
4th: 1:241 G50/32
5th: 1:094 Porsche Factory Gear set, do know its origins
6th: 0.912 Porsche Factory Gear set, do know its origins
Final Drive: 3.4444
I had it built for me by Lance Aspesi in Van Nuys, CA. KI also have in conjunction:
1. RS Fly Wheel and clutch
2. RS Motor mounts
3. RS Tranny mount
4. Factory SSK
5. FDM Golden Rod, actually Platinum Rod from FD Motorsports, NLA
6. All steel synchs
7. Forged 1-2 & 3-4 shifting forks
8. "While you are in there" bearings, etc.
Now I have the proverbial "hot knife through butter" shifting experience and incredible performance across the power band. It was there all along, I just couldn't revel in it with factory gears. Don't overanalyze, a re-gear works, and because you are always in, or very close to the power band, it feels like added HP, of course it isn't, but regardless I love the feeling. Since you are in NorCal, drive on down to Paso Robles and I'll take you for a little ride. Post ride, you'll have your check book** out.
**Who and the hell even has a check book in this digital age. I have one, but never use it. I use Chase Money Transfer and Pay Pal. Not so much Pay Pal anymore..they have *&%$ my pass word and I can't get on.
1st 3:818 Stock
2nd 2:048 Stock
3rd: 1:560 G50/21?...1:522 is g50/31
4th: 1:241 G50/32
5th: 1:094 Porsche Factory Gear set, do know its origins
6th: 0.912 Porsche Factory Gear set, do know its origins
Final Drive: 3.4444
I had it built for me by Lance Aspesi in Van Nuys, CA. KI also have in conjunction:
1. RS Fly Wheel and clutch
2. RS Motor mounts
3. RS Tranny mount
4. Factory SSK
5. FDM Golden Rod, actually Platinum Rod from FD Motorsports, NLA
6. All steel synchs
7. Forged 1-2 & 3-4 shifting forks
8. "While you are in there" bearings, etc.
Now I have the proverbial "hot knife through butter" shifting experience and incredible performance across the power band. It was there all along, I just couldn't revel in it with factory gears. Don't overanalyze, a re-gear works, and because you are always in, or very close to the power band, it feels like added HP, of course it isn't, but regardless I love the feeling. Since you are in NorCal, drive on down to Paso Robles and I'll take you for a little ride. Post ride, you'll have your check book** out.
**Who and the hell even has a check book in this digital age. I have one, but never use it. I use Chase Money Transfer and Pay Pal. Not so much Pay Pal anymore..they have *&%$ my pass word and I can't get on.
#14
Pro
Thread Starter
(tongue-in-cheek comment) NONE of you are doing anything to stop me from sliding down a (steep) slippery slope
Very useful information and the ranges of ratios posted seem to reflect individual preferences.
@Martin - I come down to Santa Barbara occasionally so thanks for the offer - I may well take you up on it.
Couple of questions
Thanks again
/alex
Very useful information and the ranges of ratios posted seem to reflect individual preferences.
@Martin - I come down to Santa Barbara occasionally so thanks for the offer - I may well take you up on it.
Couple of questions
- @ 51K miles, not ham-fisting the gearbox, what else should be replaced "while you are in there"?
- I have generally hewed to an OEM-or-better philosophy when doing R&R but do I really need steel synchros? What do they do better than the stock synchros?
Thanks again
/alex
#15
Rennlist Member
There! A new gearbox is the cheap option. :-) :-) :-)