Did Porsche make a "GT2 EVO" road car ?
11-04-2007, 11:18 AM
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Did Porsche make a "GT2 EVO" road car ?
Prompted by Graeme's superb beast and the myth surrounding his cams 
, does anyone know where the idea that the "W" model year 993GT2s were dubbed "EVO" and who by ?
I have been reviewing all the info I have on the development of the 993GT2...
The racing "EVO" was developed to meet the 1996 le Mans GT1 regs (according to Frere) the engine became the M64/83 with the Secan and TAG management 630ps/720nm and the body was further lightened with steel and aluminium panels replaced by plastic materials -the "EVO" cars had the front edge of the rear window raised so it was flush with the roof to improve air flow.
The '98 "W" model road GT2s got the Werks 1 exclusive depts 450ps/585nm engine which was designated M64/60S (M64/60RS in the MY'98 993tt with 450ps performance kit) and they got some plastic/carbon body panels ? was it doors,hood ?
Is it the inclusion of the lightweight body panels which gave rise to the "EVO" tag ?
Is there any official Porsche documentation which uses the word "EVO" or is it a
nomenclature invented by owners over the years to differentiate their '98s ?
, does anyone know where the idea that the "W" model year 993GT2s were dubbed "EVO" and who by ?I have been reviewing all the info I have on the development of the 993GT2...
The racing "EVO" was developed to meet the 1996 le Mans GT1 regs (according to Frere) the engine became the M64/83 with the Secan and TAG management 630ps/720nm and the body was further lightened with steel and aluminium panels replaced by plastic materials -the "EVO" cars had the front edge of the rear window raised so it was flush with the roof to improve air flow.
The '98 "W" model road GT2s got the Werks 1 exclusive depts 450ps/585nm engine which was designated M64/60S (M64/60RS in the MY'98 993tt with 450ps performance kit) and they got some plastic/carbon body panels ? was it doors,hood ?
Is it the inclusion of the lightweight body panels which gave rise to the "EVO" tag ?
Is there any official Porsche documentation which uses the word "EVO" or is it a
nomenclature invented by owners over the years to differentiate their '98s ?
11-04-2007, 11:29 AM
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11-04-2007, 11:30 AM
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The 1998 GT2 was indentical to the 1996 GT2 except the engine and slight interior changes (airbags standard, electric windows)
NO carbon body parts. Doors and hood (same as 96 model) in aluminum.
NO carbon body parts. Doors and hood (same as 96 model) in aluminum.
11-04-2007, 11:38 AM
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I have no good source ATM on this, but wasn't the engine just the K24s and the extra oil cooler?
11-04-2007, 11:49 AM
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The info on the engine comes from Marc Bongers book, he says the following about the engine designation:
stock 993tt 408PS = M64/60
993TT/GT2 430PS = M64/60 R
993TT "S" 450PS = M64/60 S
993TT WITH PERFORMANCE KIT 450PS = M64/60 RS
GT2 MY'98 450PS = M64/60 S
Graeme shared his "sticker" with us before and there doesn't appear to be and "RS" marking either ? would this be stamped on the engine somewhere maybe ?
11-04-2007, 11:52 AM
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Thinking some more about it, did I read somewhere that some of the GT2's, '98s possibly did NOT get the aluminium doors and hoods since Porsche ran out and stuck the stock steel stuff on them ?
If the '98s have airbags and electric windows it would be interesting to know what they ended up weighing ?
If the '98s have airbags and electric windows it would be interesting to know what they ended up weighing ?
11-04-2007, 12:34 PM
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Adrian Streather's book claims there were 34 993 GT2 EVO built for the '98 model year and that they had the 450ps engine, carbon skinned doors and carbon fibre rear flares (he also claims the normal road GT2 had steel rear flares 
)
In the racing section of his book he says "The good news was the 993 GT2 EVO road car -all 21 of them recieved some of the modifications that were developed by the Larbre racing team, including the massive new front brake discs and huge brake calipers"
)In the racing section of his book he says "The good news was the 993 GT2 EVO road car -all 21 of them recieved some of the modifications that were developed by the Larbre racing team, including the massive new front brake discs and huge brake calipers"
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11-04-2007, 12:35 PM
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Adrian didn't include the 450hp standard TT in his 993 book. Don't know why, I'm sure he's aware of them.
11-04-2007, 12:49 PM
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As I am considering currently to purchase a 993GT2 I have made some investigations into the issue, seeing some cars and talking to people who have them.
To answer: There is no 98 EVO model - this is a rumour; all 21 models are road models that differ to the previous GT2 versions only by the fact that they have no aluminium doors and the 450 hp engine - by the way the identical engine as used in the Turbos with WLSII. 20 of them were sold, one stayed with Porsche since then. The 1998 versions were built from body parts that were reserved for the first generation of 993 GT2. When demand stayed low they decided to built another 21 cars, but as they were out of aluminium doors they used regular ones. This is by the way the same procedure as with the 959: they built 8 further 959 in 1992 from the spare parts.
Buyers were able to opt a comfort version 993 GT2 with electrical windows and airbag and the Turbo sport seats, or they could downsize that to mechanical windows etc. This holds true for 96 as well as 98 model versions - I have seen all different combinations in stock condition.
Best,
Nils
To answer: There is no 98 EVO model - this is a rumour; all 21 models are road models that differ to the previous GT2 versions only by the fact that they have no aluminium doors and the 450 hp engine - by the way the identical engine as used in the Turbos with WLSII. 20 of them were sold, one stayed with Porsche since then. The 1998 versions were built from body parts that were reserved for the first generation of 993 GT2. When demand stayed low they decided to built another 21 cars, but as they were out of aluminium doors they used regular ones. This is by the way the same procedure as with the 959: they built 8 further 959 in 1992 from the spare parts.
Buyers were able to opt a comfort version 993 GT2 with electrical windows and airbag and the Turbo sport seats, or they could downsize that to mechanical windows etc. This holds true for 96 as well as 98 model versions - I have seen all different combinations in stock condition.
Best,
Nils
11-04-2007, 12:53 PM
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Hi TB
The R, S and RS designations for 430 and 450PS are stamped on the engine mount, not on the stickers.
If they were factory installed, you could find them as options codes (as Russel said). If installed after delivery by a Porsche center, they simply stamp the engine at the time of kit installation.
This is easy to understand, because the engine is anyway an M64/60; the kits consist of additional/external parts (cooler, k24s, ECU and tips) that do not modify the engine block itself. That's why they stamp the engine mount, but do not change engine type designation.
FWIK the GT2 in MY98 got the 450 power kit and steel doors, while before they had 430 kit and alu doors. Calling the 450GT2 "Evo" is kind of a nickname and has nothing to do with real racing Evo engines, which have different cams, ignition etc. This is the factory standard, anyway, and cannot be considered absolute truth; as we all know very well, with these models everything was more or less possible at Porsche, so every car is a specific case study.
All the best,
Paolo
The R, S and RS designations for 430 and 450PS are stamped on the engine mount, not on the stickers.
If they were factory installed, you could find them as options codes (as Russel said). If installed after delivery by a Porsche center, they simply stamp the engine at the time of kit installation.
This is easy to understand, because the engine is anyway an M64/60; the kits consist of additional/external parts (cooler, k24s, ECU and tips) that do not modify the engine block itself. That's why they stamp the engine mount, but do not change engine type designation.
FWIK the GT2 in MY98 got the 450 power kit and steel doors, while before they had 430 kit and alu doors. Calling the 450GT2 "Evo" is kind of a nickname and has nothing to do with real racing Evo engines, which have different cams, ignition etc. This is the factory standard, anyway, and cannot be considered absolute truth; as we all know very well, with these models everything was more or less possible at Porsche, so every car is a specific case study.
All the best,
Paolo
11-04-2007, 12:56 PM
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AFAIK the EVO nomenclature was given by race teams.
In 1995 the 993 GT2 was introduced and raced in GTS-1. The 993GT street car was a 993"GT" not a GT2.
Then in 1996 the 993 "GT1" 3.2 ltr was introduced and then the 996 based GT1 and subsequently, the 1996 GT2 was called "EVO" to differentiate from the pre-GT1 cars. This EVO was only a race car, not a street car, and had just like the previous 1995 version the TAG 3.8 management system and a Heggemann intercooler, different from the street version, it also had mechanical rocker arms and some other stronger parts as well as high lift cams and restrictors on the turbos.
The watercooled "996GT1" was put to racing in 1996, and the team of our own "Porschemeister" above went on to win everything they threw at him.
In 1997, The 3.8 ltr, twin plug engines were the result of the R&D done by some of the race teams, including mainly Freisinger, Roock, Konrad and Parr in the UK, who were privateers with semi-factory werks team status since Porsche Motorsports benefitted from their learnings and used it to make the "EVO 2" more competitive against the new Vipers and others. Some of the changes are the ones mentioned by TB above, others were the larger disc brakes, and aerodynamic aids.
They were also allowed to race with twin plug, which was not the case before.
The full fledge 3.8 ltr racers were later called "GT2 R", but there is no documentation or workshop manuals covering them (AFAIK) since they were built for very specific teams who carried the Porsche official flagship.
This is from bits and pieces that I gathered from different sources including direct information from some of the race teams mentioned above, however I also have credible literature that has a different POV, but I somehow prefer this version.
Net net, there is no such thing as street EVO cars IMO, the only EVO cars were race cars with TAG management system. Then the EVO2 and "GT2R"was the later and more aggressive version of them.
In 1995 the 993 GT2 was introduced and raced in GTS-1. The 993GT street car was a 993"GT" not a GT2.
Then in 1996 the 993 "GT1" 3.2 ltr was introduced and then the 996 based GT1 and subsequently, the 1996 GT2 was called "EVO" to differentiate from the pre-GT1 cars. This EVO was only a race car, not a street car, and had just like the previous 1995 version the TAG 3.8 management system and a Heggemann intercooler, different from the street version, it also had mechanical rocker arms and some other stronger parts as well as high lift cams and restrictors on the turbos.
The watercooled "996GT1" was put to racing in 1996, and the team of our own "Porschemeister" above went on to win everything they threw at him.
In 1997, The 3.8 ltr, twin plug engines were the result of the R&D done by some of the race teams, including mainly Freisinger, Roock, Konrad and Parr in the UK, who were privateers with semi-factory werks team status since Porsche Motorsports benefitted from their learnings and used it to make the "EVO 2" more competitive against the new Vipers and others. Some of the changes are the ones mentioned by TB above, others were the larger disc brakes, and aerodynamic aids.
They were also allowed to race with twin plug, which was not the case before.
The full fledge 3.8 ltr racers were later called "GT2 R", but there is no documentation or workshop manuals covering them (AFAIK) since they were built for very specific teams who carried the Porsche official flagship.
This is from bits and pieces that I gathered from different sources including direct information from some of the race teams mentioned above, however I also have credible literature that has a different POV, but I somehow prefer this version.
Net net, there is no such thing as street EVO cars IMO, the only EVO cars were race cars with TAG management system. Then the EVO2 and "GT2R"was the later and more aggressive version of them.
11-04-2007, 01:00 PM
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As I am considering currently to purchase a 993GT2 I have made some investigations into the issue, seeing some cars and talking to people who have them.
To answer: There is no 98 EVO model - this is a rumour; all 21 models are road models that differ to the previous GT2 versions only by the fact that they have no aluminium doors and the 450 hp engine - by the way the identical engine as used in the Turbos with WLSII. 20 of them were sold, one stayed with Porsche since then. The 1998 versions were built from body parts that were reserved for the first generation of 993 GT2. When demand stayed low they decided to built another 21 cars, but as they were out of aluminium doors they used regular ones. This is by the way the same procedure as with the 959: they built 8 further 959 in 1992 from the spare parts.
Buyers were able to opt a comfort version 993 GT2 with electrical windows and airbag and the Turbo sport seats, or they could downsize that to mechanical windows etc. This holds true for 96 as well as 98 model versions - I have seen all different combinations in stock condition.
Best,
Nils
To answer: There is no 98 EVO model - this is a rumour; all 21 models are road models that differ to the previous GT2 versions only by the fact that they have no aluminium doors and the 450 hp engine - by the way the identical engine as used in the Turbos with WLSII. 20 of them were sold, one stayed with Porsche since then. The 1998 versions were built from body parts that were reserved for the first generation of 993 GT2. When demand stayed low they decided to built another 21 cars, but as they were out of aluminium doors they used regular ones. This is by the way the same procedure as with the 959: they built 8 further 959 in 1992 from the spare parts.
Buyers were able to opt a comfort version 993 GT2 with electrical windows and airbag and the Turbo sport seats, or they could downsize that to mechanical windows etc. This holds true for 96 as well as 98 model versions - I have seen all different combinations in stock condition.
Best,
Nils
Thanks for clearing that up
. The value in the '98 GT2 then is the model year (last of kind) - I wonder what the comfort versions with extras and steel doors/hood ended up weighing ?Here is the page from Marc Bongers book (very well worth buying)
11-04-2007, 01:23 PM
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But as for the value: Several enthusiasts believe that the 430 hp version will be more valuable in future, as it is more "core" due to the aluminium doors. The 98 models are just a compilation of spare parts with not all original parts being available. (btw a difference to the 959 - the 8 built in 1992 are fully identical to the previous versions) So over here you'll have to pay 200-230 kEuro for an unmolested stock 993 GT2 with low kilometres, doesn't matter which model year.
11-04-2007, 03:02 PM
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Don't know about the weight, sorry.
But as for the value: Several enthusiasts believe that the 430 hp version will be more valuable in future, as it is more "core" due to the aluminium doors. The 98 models are just a compilation of spare parts with not all original parts being available. (btw a difference to the 959 - the 8 built in 1992 are fully identical to the previous versions) So over here you'll have to pay 200-230 kEuro for an unmolested stock 993 GT2 with low kilometres, doesn't matter which model year.
But as for the value: Several enthusiasts believe that the 430 hp version will be more valuable in future, as it is more "core" due to the aluminium doors. The 98 models are just a compilation of spare parts with not all original parts being available. (btw a difference to the 959 - the 8 built in 1992 are fully identical to the previous versions) So over here you'll have to pay 200-230 kEuro for an unmolested stock 993 GT2 with low kilometres, doesn't matter which model year.
It is a shame that we cannot seem to find any definative information but as pmf says each car must be treated as an individual.
One other bone of contention is the cylinder heads and camshafts. Andy at Fearnsport is adament that they have different cylinder heads with high lift non hydaulic tappets. When we get around to checking the tappets I'll know first hand. Yesterday I drove another GT2 a standard 1996 car. The comparison is interesting. Below 3000 rpm the car has nothing like the torque that the Evo has. The Evo drives like say a 964RS. The power delivery is no where near as potent as the Evo and the power curve feels flat all the way to the rev limiter. The Evo pulls much, much harder and at 5500rpm it really kicks hard again. The best way to show the difference is that in the earlier car coming off a roundabout in 2nd gear and nailing it to the floor on the way out it comes on boost, grips and goes with no drama. The Evo is starting to go sideways and is trying its hardest to spin up the rear tyres. regards to you all, Graeme
