graeme36s

I have sent an email to both Gert and Mr.Schmirler to see what they suggest. Just spoke to Andy and they have had the mapping done. The're going to check everything once again prior to another dyno run tomorrow morning. I'll let you know the outcome and post the readouts when I pick the car up.

pmf

Graeme, just to complicate your life... Thomas Probst, near Frankfurt, is the best GT2 & Gt2Evo specialist I ever met
Many people win with his engines

Bye,
pmf

Jean

Gents

This thread is a bit disturbing, I am just seeing a lot of inaccurate information that can be misleading. I am in no way an expert and I certainly consider the GT2 as the Nec Plus Ultra of all aircooled cars, obviously a personal preference since I clearly decided to clone one!! Graeme, please forgive me as well, you are obviously a great guy and very lucky to have a great toy, and none of this has any personal connotation.

Starting with nomenclature, everytime I read GT2EVO, my mind drifts towards the GT2 race car, this car is not an EVO, this has been covered before. The EVO is a 460Hp GT2 equipped with a programmable TAG ecu, NOT a Bosch Motronic ECU. It also has mechanical lifters, whereas this car has hydraulic lifters, at least from the factory. Many other things differentiate them as well, among them the intercooler.

It is ok to call it EVO, but this only adds to the confusion that we all struggled to clarify through reading many books and discussing with many people in the know, let us call it the right way, a 993GT, or 993GT2, but it is not an EVO.

Then as far as Hp is concerned, if this car is a '98 and untouched as Ithink I read back when it was purchased, then it is supposed to have a 450bhp upgrade, which is K24 turbos, ECU, and a few other things. The performance of such car is well documented, and in no way near a Mc Laren for instance, or other uber supercars, it is a 450bhp 993 with circa 1350kgs in running condition, Fast? Definitely!!! But many around here have much faster 993TTs, from R turbos, to CTR2s, to quite a few stage 2 turbos, let alone cars like the Andial's or TB's monster, Jussi, and many of them in 2WD mode, etc.. If this car is pulling 400bhp, then it cannot be such a monster like what Andy Fearns or yourself described!?

The ECU cannot be programmed back to the GT2 programming! They can put their own program, like many other thousand 993TTS have aorund the globe from any bolt on k24 kit ala FVD and so many others. If I had an original GT2, no one would be messing around with my programming, I can guarantee you that, especially not the same guys who told me that my car was more powerful than any other they have tested, to later find out it has 400bhp.

As far as GT2 specialists, there is no need for that! These cars have exactly the same engine as the regular 993TT, why would they need a specialist in GT2s, other than to bill you twice the price maybe? Just go to a reputed (in number of years of experience actually building and tuning engines for instance) techinician, and you are done.

I know it sounds a bit harsh, and I apologize, but there is way too much mumbo jumbo here, and the uninformed reader can be very misled.

Off my soap box now, I hope you do the right thing for this baby, and not let anyone mess with your programming, and I also hope you enjoy driving it te way it was meant to be.

graeme36s

Thanks Jean and I respect your thoughts. Just to add I have spoken to Andy this afternoon and they have discovered an intermittent fault in the air mass meter. Took one off another 911GT (so named) and fault cured. I imagine it won't be cheap and I'll have to wait a while for one to come from Porsche Motorsport in Germany I guess. Know more tomorrow.

WHB Porsche

GT2 needs a special MAF? They can be had from Bosch vendors (bought by Bosch part #, not Porsche part #) for about $450.

TB993tt

NO NO NO the air mass meter "should" be the same as stock 993tt (unless the car has been severely messed with) you don't need Porsche M (or their prices) just an OPC

What I am wondering is, if Graeme has been driving his DIN 1380kg GT2 with 395hp and thinks it is scary fast, just how much faster it will be with another 55 real Porsche hp and the torque to go with it

Baring in mind your previous posts about the acceleration being so savage, you certainly need to learn to tame a full fat 450hp before embarking on further power increases - it takes real skill to tame 500+ hp 1400kg RWD GT2s - I chickened out and went back to 4WD

WHB Porsche

See here.

graeme36s

I'll speak to fearnsport and see if we can locate it by Bosch part number. Andy did say that the GT2 version is different to TT. As for performance as the fault is intermitent I would imagine that performance has only dropped of recently, maybe even on the morning I drove it there. When they drove the car on the road some times it would go and sometimes not. On the way up to Fearnsport the roads where busy and greasy so no chance to enjoy the power. Weight wise with over half a tank of juice say 55 to 60 litres (92 litre tank) the car weighed 1340kg. Which means that the german registration document is accurate at 1290kg without fuel I guess.

Felix

The Bosch number is 0 280 217 809

ACEparts_com

I have a perfectly good used example of said part. My 993TT looks like it was factory fitted with a GT EVO maf

Turbo993

Jean,

everything correct. To add to that: the 98 version of the GT2 was not originally meant to be built. But looking at the spare parts situation (too many cars went into museum and not for racing) they decided that they were able to built another 21 cars. As it was the year 98 they opted for the strongest Turbo technology available, the regular 450 hp version (which was not available in 95 with the first series of GT2s). There have been no changes in any kind of electronics etc for the 98 version.
There is only one other thing - next to the engine - that differentiates the 98 version from the previous: Porsche ran out of aluminium doors, so the 98 version has the normal, heavier doors.

Nils

porschemeister

Graeme I have to agree 100% with Jean. I have stayed on the sidelines on this thread because I started to roll my eyes when I read all the problems you have on the supposed factory GT2EVO engine.

AGAIN there is no GT2EVO engine for the street GT2. I think you were mislead by the person you bought it from.

Guess how I know, I was somewhat involved in the development of the car (I used to own and race serial # 1 and 15 993GT2 wich was later converted to EVO see Porsche Sport book 1996 and 1997) and together with the 2 key Porsche development guys responsible for the GT2 we tested a lot of components which were later used in the street cars.

1996 993GT2 street had a stock TT engine with a different ECU and additional oil cooler and standard hydraulic lifters
1995/6 993GT2 race car had a modified TT engine with solid lifters, TAG unit, dump pipes, larger intercooler and lots of small little changes
1998 993GT2 street car was improved by using the K24 and modified Bosch ECU but still using hydraulic lifters and those where all the changes. Period.
1996/7 993GT2EVO race car: lots of mods!!!various stages as well, all of them K24, Secan intercooler, solid lifters, twin plug, later 3.8...and more

I still have lots of documentation around and I recently dug into it to build my US legal GT2 based on a 993TT (which is running now ) and I am very certain of the above statements.

I have the feeling that they talked up the GT2 you bought and tried to make it sound like it is all factory stuff instead these are all aftermarket modifications. If done right, there is nothing wrong with those.

I would recommend to get a FVD ECU properly mapped for the K24's which will give you solid 480 to 490hp with single plug and no internal mods. This is in my opinion a fully accepable modification for the already awesome factory GT2 engine.

Best,

Porschemeister

LAT

I have a spare used one from my Ruf CTR-2 for half price if you like.. .

TB993tt

The 1290kg is the DIN weight which is all fluids and 90% full tank. The weight was verfied as accurate. when Sport Auto tested an early road GT2 which weighed in right around the 1290kg full of fuel....

Your '98 has to be a bit heavier since you don't have the aluminium parts of the earlier version.
I was guessing 1340 + another 30 for 90% fuel = 1370kg DIN

It is good to get the detail correct since Porsche nowdays seem to enjoy clouding the weight issue by listing the standard DIN weights for very low specced cars which always come out on the road with another 50+kg of flab on them....
How many times do you read that the CGT weighs 1380kg ? ALL the cars weighed so far come on at 1470+kg DIN - somewhere there must be a "poverty" spec CGT with manual windows, no aircon or audio/satnav and who knows what else....
Look at the 997GT3 - Cargraphic stripped EVERYTHING out and replaced with featherweight stuff for their Tuner GP winner car and that car still only just weighed about the same as Porsche quoted for a standard DIN car

TB993tt

Nils, I don|t know if it is a language thing or if I am reading what zou wrote incorrectly, but zou seem to be contradicting above what zou wrote in the other thread about "What is a GT2 EVO"......?

In the other thread you said the EVO was the race car with 600hp, K27 etc which is correct as I understood ? Above you seem to be saying different