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Old 02-27-2015, 03:47 PM
  #61  
Flachbau
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Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
Actually what usually happens is (if the car is not already eligible for importation) the registered importer has to petition the NHTSA, stating what you need to change (if anything) to meet each FMVSS. That document is then published in the federal register asking for public comments. PCNA will then comment with, "this is actually different so you shouldn't be allowed to import". The NHTSA will then give you a thumbs up or down. And if they rule against you, you can file again a few months later.
As a practical matter, for modern cars which have models produced for the U.S. market, there is negative economic incentive to import - even if possible - due to lack of global standards and the cost to comply, The cars of interest to this thread are 'different'.
Old 03-10-2015, 10:31 PM
  #62  
FlatSix911
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Interesting article on Air-cooled Turbo prices ...
http://www.classicdriver.com/en/arti...nally-shooting

Are prices for the air-cooled Porsche 911 Turbo finally shooting up?
10 March 2015



Anyone buying a classic Porsche 911 Turbo today will need to take a deep breath before signing the cheque
because they’ve suddenly leapt in price, especially the air-cooled models. We asked the experts to explain the Turbo hype...

The new engine strategy at Porsche has helped to identify the naturally aspirated models as an endangered species – and hence suggests their investment potential. But then again, the death of the classic brand-new Carrera might have no effect on the value of the true, collectors’ models. While enthusiasts might be pretty annoyed that every Porsche 911 is likely, soon, to carry the symbol ‘Turbo’, does this account for the rocketing values of air-cooled specimens of this genus? A look at the catalogues for the upcoming auctions at Amelia Island is enough: a rare Porsche 993 Turbo S (pictured), perhaps the only one in Ocean Jade Metallic, is estimated by Gooding & Co. at 325,000 to 400,000 US dollars. At current exchange rates, that’s 300,000 to 370,000 euros! And one of fewer than 1,500 964 Turbos – the yellow car in the picture – is listed in the catalogue at 300,000 to 350,000 US dollars.

The greatest Turbos of all time

We asked the experts why these air-cooled Turbos are suddenly so expensive, with their rapid increase in value often overtaking the earlier Porsche 930. “The 3.3-litre 911 Turbo with four-speed gearbox remained virtually unchanged from 1978 to 1988, so there are a lot on the market – many of which are now showing signs of corrosion. This is an expensive problem!” warns Josh Sadler of Porsche specialist Autofarm, in Oxfordshire. Philip Raby, of Philip Raby Porsche in Chichester, West Sussex, agrees, adding: “The 964 and 993 Turbos were galvanised and so rust is much less of a problem. Also, the 993 Turbo is a much more useable car with its twin turbochargers, reducing the massive lag that the earlier Turbos suffered from – and its four-wheel drive also makes the power more manageable.” Arguably exempt from these criticisms is the “original Turbo” of the Seventies – the 1974-1977 911 3.0 Turbo is valuable because it is the most original, according to Dino Pannhorst of Pannhorst Classics, who reports that the early Turbos now attract strong prices.

But in general terms, what are the most desirable Turbos of all time? For Dino Pannhorst, it’s the rare Porsche 964 Turbo S and 993 Turbo S. Josh Sadler, however, would prefer a well-ripened 1975 Turbo 3.0. “It was seriously state-of-the-art when it appeared,” he says. Meanwhile Philip Raby stresses that a 911 Turbo was the real poster car among 911s. “That’s also what makes the Turbo – aside from the performance – more desirable for many buyers,” says Raby.

The next generation

Porsche sold far greater quantities of modern Turbos with water cooling and many collectors currently wonder when and if it will pay to invest in one of the modern generations. Yes, it’s worth it, our respondents agree… but don’t expect major price jumps, at least not for the 997 Turbo. Right now, Raby sees the potential of the 996 Turbo: “People have woken up and realised that the 996 Turbo – at current prices – is a great car. Good, well-maintained examples already generate decent prices because they are becoming increasingly rare.” Dino Pannhorst sees particular potential in the factory-uprated models. Meanwhile, on the question of whether the future of Porsche has an impact on the market for younger generations of the Turbo, Pannhorst responds: “I think the clientele for the original Porsche concept will continue to grow. Many of my customers no longer identify with a modern Porsche.”

Classic Porsche price jump

Since 2014, there has been a positive trend in the market for high-priced collector Porsches worth more than 100,000 euros, according to the analysts of Historic Automobile Group International, also known as HAGI. In 2014, Porsche showed the strongest performance at 32 per cent, with Ferrari at 18 per cent. In 2013, it was a different story: classic Ferraris reached 62 per cent, with the corresponding Porsches off the pace in relative terms, at 24 per cent. As the 2014 figures show, the lower price levels then reached by Porsches is now seen as an advantage. Porsche’s Turbo models benefit from this trend, with HAGI’s price analysis showing that in the last two years, 964 and 993 Turbos have witnessed a real leap in prices. However, it’s well worth remembering that these cars offer not only investment potential, but also a thrilling, involving drive – and it’s for this reason thet they are in such high demand today.
Old 03-10-2015, 11:30 PM
  #63  
DiegoR
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Interesting article. English is not my native language so what does it mean exactly that the aircooled Porsche cars are shooting up in price? That they are increasing in value quickly?
Old 03-10-2015, 11:32 PM
  #64  
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Yes.
Old 03-11-2015, 07:15 PM
  #65  
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this weekend will tell a lot about the market
Old 03-11-2015, 08:06 PM
  #66  
GreenLantern
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Originally Posted by doublecabmel
this weekend will tell a lot about the market
Considering I'm convinced we're in a bubble, that's what I expect it to tell me.

Which cars are you watching?
Old 03-30-2015, 09:41 PM
  #67  
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Not sure if this Turbo S has a sunroof or not. If it doesn't, you know where to send the finders fee.

https://www.pca.org/browse-the-mart-classified-ads?f[0]=im_field_car%3A947
Old 03-31-2015, 12:16 AM
  #68  
Dick in TN
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Not a bubble guys..you're gonna have to pay the going rate. If you wait, it'll just cost you. IMO. as always. .
Old 04-04-2015, 03:29 PM
  #69  
anonymous918
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Originally Posted by 911F1
Not sure if this Turbo S has a sunroof or not. If it doesn't, you know where to send the finders fee.
this car got snapped up quickly... not by me unfortunately
Old 04-04-2015, 04:27 PM
  #70  
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There seems to be a rush of people that are very willing to pay big money for air cooled cars right now. So my question is, are these people collectors, speculators or people new to the community? And are they afraid that they're going to "miss the boat"? I think that the last time any sought after Porsche was available was about 18 months ago. Not sure I could rationalize with buying one for the current prices. Some of you know my TT story but some of you don't. I don't feel I'm in a bad place financially with my TT's but I guess because I'm almost 8 years into overall TT ownership I see things differently.

Driver quality TT's with 40-50K miles are asking $125-150K. Lower mile cars are asking $150K+. And we all know TTS's are asking and selling for. I guess it's that all the fun has been burned out of this hustle that I'm feeling like an outsider looking in. I brought my mildly modified TT to the garage at home a few weeks ago and have been driving it a bit. It's amazing to me how relevant and at the same time irrelevant the car can be. Now I have to find a nice 356 before the prices are on par with ocean view condo's!
Old 04-04-2015, 06:37 PM
  #71  
mausone46
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Many buyer are new to the comunity, they buying AC Porsche because money at the Bank doesn't make sense anymore, because are cool cars, because are good investment, because everybody want one, because......................
and price continue to going up and the more there price gone up the more new buyer comes to the "community"
ciao
Giorgio
Old 04-04-2015, 07:03 PM
  #72  
JDHertz11
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Originally Posted by mausone46
Many buyer are new to the comunity, they buying AC Porsche because money at the Bank doesn't make sense anymore, because are cool cars, because are good investment, because everybody want one, because...................... and price continue to going up and the more there price gone up the more new buyer comes to the "community" ciao Giorgio
I'm in the same boat more or less but man oh man, I can't imagine buying gold at $1,800/oz either! Decided to take the TT to dinner tonight, driving my portfolio...
Old 04-04-2015, 07:31 PM
  #73  
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No one knows what will happen but the uber priced stuff on cars.com has been languishing there for some time. Even some of the more sensibly priced cars through the bigger indies are not moving. There seems to be a good supply of cars for sale so things could be slowing down. When US interest rates start going up in June? or September?, I think the market will become a lot more rational as speculative cars come back on the market, further increasing supply.
Old 08-03-2015, 07:26 PM
  #74  
oshkosh99
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collector,

in case you're still looking, here is a (european spec) turbo S with sunroof delete. around 15k miles, 625k€ (around 690k$) asking price...
http://elevenclassics.com/listings/1...chrot_schwarz/

And of course RdW spec cars are much higher valued over here in Europe, 450hp (instead of426) and lower uniball sportssuspension (I understand same as GT2) are just two of the prominent differences.
This one sold recently for around € 550k, more miles (70k km), and unwanted color combination (silver and red):
http://www.autosalon-singen.de/de/ar...213_0022_03_01

And as to the jap TTS mentioned above: unless it is type 993 780 it ain't a TTS. No matter what the importer "spec'd", it has to have left the factory as a TTS, not even a normal turbo with all TTS options through exclusive (450hp engine, uniball sports suspenion, rear quarter air ducts, aerokit II, full carbon, all leather switches,...) not even that counts as a turbo S, as it is not type "993780".

This is the best TTS look-a-like I have ever seen:
http://www.autosalon-singen.de/de/fa...3%20Turbo.html
Even the carbon pieces carry the turbo S script (no idea how the previous owner did this; LA dismanteler??) . But still, the hub cabs are wrong, the leather interior is less complete and the type is not a "780". So they dont sell it as a "turbo S" although most can't tell the difference. Still a hefty price, but compared to others a 30% discount...

Greetings...
Old 08-03-2015, 07:51 PM
  #75  
DiegoR
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Originally Posted by oshkosh99
collector,

in case you're still looking, here is a (european spec) turbo S with sunroof delete. around 15k miles, 625k€ (around 690k$) asking price...
http://elevenclassics.com/listings/1...chrot_schwarz/

And of course RdW spec cars are much higher valued over here in Europe, 450hp (instead of426) and lower uniball sportssuspension (I understand same as GT2) are just two of the prominent differences.
This one sold recently for around € 550k, more miles (70k km), and unwanted color combination (silver and red):
http://www.autosalon-singen.de/de/ar...213_0022_03_01

And as to the jap TTS mentioned above: unless it is type 993 780 it ain't a TTS. No matter what the importer "spec'd", it has to have left the factory as a TTS, not even a normal turbo with all TTS options through exclusive (450hp engine, uniball sports suspenion, rear quarter air ducts, aerokit II, full carbon, all leather switches,...) not even that counts as a turbo S, as it is not type "993780".

This is the best TTS look-a-like I have ever seen:
http://www.autosalon-singen.de/de/fa...3%20Turbo.html
Even the carbon pieces carry the turbo S script (no idea how the previous owner did this; LA dismanteler??) . But still, the hub cabs are wrong, the leather interior is less complete and the type is not a "780". So they dont sell it as a "turbo S" although most can't tell the difference. Still a hefty price, but compared to others a 30% discount...

Greetings...

collector might not want any of thsoe because is not US specs?? And can't import them or something like that?

The last link, the Turbo S with 85k kms n it, shouldn't have the steering wheel airbag wrapped in leather?


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