Porsche 911 "buyers"
06-06-2018, 02:39 PM
#31
Race Director
I suspect the way the car is displayed in the photos is scaring off very people you actually want to speak with.
Take the car somewhere picturesque half an hour before sunset and shoot some soft-core car pr0n. You're selling a 911, not a chainsaw. 996's may be cheap compared to other 911's, but it's still a 911. The car needs to appeal to the "I've always wanted a 911" crowd; your photos don't do this. The combination of being on a lift and having lots of other cars visible around the lot/yard make it look kind of sketchy. You're trying to get people to plunk down $22K for a toy that has been maligned online for years; nothing in the ad is going to make someone think "Aha! THIS is the 911 I've been looking for!"
Your ad is also way too light on content. Uninformed buyers don't know anything about the 996, so include some detail. Include a photo of the window sticker if you have it; list the options if you don't.
Take the car somewhere picturesque half an hour before sunset and shoot some soft-core car pr0n. You're selling a 911, not a chainsaw. 996's may be cheap compared to other 911's, but it's still a 911. The car needs to appeal to the "I've always wanted a 911" crowd; your photos don't do this. The combination of being on a lift and having lots of other cars visible around the lot/yard make it look kind of sketchy. You're trying to get people to plunk down $22K for a toy that has been maligned online for years; nothing in the ad is going to make someone think "Aha! THIS is the 911 I've been looking for!"
Your ad is also way too light on content. Uninformed buyers don't know anything about the 996, so include some detail. Include a photo of the window sticker if you have it; list the options if you don't.
06-06-2018, 03:13 PM
#32
Shameful Thread Killer
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Thread Starter
Don't go there. I have a bunch of rentals. We just about have to advertise on CL. I've tried many other sources. Nothing brings in applicants like CL. But - lotta frog kissing until the prince shows up. We've got a vacancy in Katy TX right now and we are getting desperate. If you live there, or want to move to Katy/W Houston, drop me a line. I have the perfect spot for quality tenants.
06-06-2018, 03:16 PM
#33
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
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Thread Starter
The ad pictures are terrible and the description is worse. The car looks likes it’s sitting in the rear of used car lot like an abandoned afterthought. Take it somewhere scenic and take shots of the WHOLE car, not a few with the bumpers chopped off. Let the buyer imagine himself/herself driving to those locations in their car.
Members of this forum recognize the sport seats and aero package but a non-996 saavy buyer may not. Write a description why this makes the car special and why the preventative maintenance done on it makes it ready to drive from the get go.
You are narrowing your buyer pool with the way this ad is set up and inviting low ballers and scammers because the car looks half way abandoned. The problem is not the car, it’s the ad. That’s one advantage BaT has in that the detail is unparalleled and the photos are all encompassing. Do a mini version of that for Craigslist and I’m betting your traffic will improve. Just my opinion .....
Members of this forum recognize the sport seats and aero package but a non-996 saavy buyer may not. Write a description why this makes the car special and why the preventative maintenance done on it makes it ready to drive from the get go.
You are narrowing your buyer pool with the way this ad is set up and inviting low ballers and scammers because the car looks half way abandoned. The problem is not the car, it’s the ad. That’s one advantage BaT has in that the detail is unparalleled and the photos are all encompassing. Do a mini version of that for Craigslist and I’m betting your traffic will improve. Just my opinion .....
06-06-2018, 04:32 PM
#34
Race Director
When I sell cars private-party and advertise on CL, I put together a web page with photos, all the text, etc. and link to it from the CL ad to avoid having to deal with the Craigslist photo manager.
I think you definitely want to include the longwinded description - that's the kind of crap that reassures timid buyers.
It seems obvious, but make mention of the aero. That's a major difference between your car and the majority of the 996's that were purchased as lease-spec (no-option) cars.
RE: renting properties out on CL - no joke. I've interacted with some world-class whackjobs courtesy of CL. One moron listed his current landlord as a reference and turned out to have a full year left on his lease. If you want to be a POS and move out in the night to leave your landlord high and dry, I suppose that's your right...but maybe don't include said landlord as a personal reference.
I think you definitely want to include the longwinded description - that's the kind of crap that reassures timid buyers.
It seems obvious, but make mention of the aero. That's a major difference between your car and the majority of the 996's that were purchased as lease-spec (no-option) cars.
RE: renting properties out on CL - no joke. I've interacted with some world-class whackjobs courtesy of CL. One moron listed his current landlord as a reference and turned out to have a full year left on his lease. If you want to be a POS and move out in the night to leave your landlord high and dry, I suppose that's your right...but maybe don't include said landlord as a personal reference.
06-06-2018, 10:53 PM
#35
I've had similar experiences and have pretty much decided to not renew the listings. My favorite is the text that says "Is your car still available. Call me". So I always respond with a text that says "Is your Mom available ?" Oddly enough I never get a response 😀
Mine is a 99 C2 listed for $21K including 2 sets of wheels, which I feel is a very fair price, but quite frankly the aggravation isn't worth it. I don't need to sell it, really like the car, but it's just not very practical with teenagers, etc... so I keep thinking why not try to sell it.
Mine is a 99 C2 listed for $21K including 2 sets of wheels, which I feel is a very fair price, but quite frankly the aggravation isn't worth it. I don't need to sell it, really like the car, but it's just not very practical with teenagers, etc... so I keep thinking why not try to sell it.
06-07-2018, 12:31 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
There are 2 BIG red flags that tell you a buyer isn't serious
1) They ask what your lowest price is at the beginning of the conversation, before they've ever had a chance to properly vet what they're talking about buying
2) If they want you to bring the car to them or meet them half way
1) They ask what your lowest price is at the beginning of the conversation, before they've ever had a chance to properly vet what they're talking about buying
2) If they want you to bring the car to them or meet them half way
06-07-2018, 01:23 AM
#37
Racer
A lot of good points in this tread. I have made enough money selling stuff on craigslist to buy myself a house, then pay ths entry fee for a 996.
Salesmanship is not for the faint of heart. Salesmen in dealerships have the same stories. You have to have a thick skin, you have to put the efforf in. If you dont want to put the effort in, then yu trade it in and let smeone else make money putting the effort in.
as others have stated, i would rather someone know up front that our price rang does not align with each other than waste my time, so please let them ask how negotiable i am? I am faily firm, but will knock off some at the point of sale. Or i price higher and tell them my "bottom price"
Salesmanship is not for the faint of heart. Salesmen in dealerships have the same stories. You have to have a thick skin, you have to put the efforf in. If you dont want to put the effort in, then yu trade it in and let smeone else make money putting the effort in.
as others have stated, i would rather someone know up front that our price rang does not align with each other than waste my time, so please let them ask how negotiable i am? I am faily firm, but will knock off some at the point of sale. Or i price higher and tell them my "bottom price"
06-07-2018, 02:17 PM
#38
Instructor
I’ve sold plenty of cars online with no problems. The secret is to put in the ad “please respond with phone number and I’ll call you, all others will be ignored”. Never put your number. The legit shoppers will follow your instructions.
06-07-2018, 02:52 PM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Pictures and long description are key to selling the car online fast.
Also, consider Ebay instead of CL. Much bigger exposure and you can filter out flakes with deposit requirement.
Also, consider Ebay instead of CL. Much bigger exposure and you can filter out flakes with deposit requirement.
06-07-2018, 04:00 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
From a buyer's perspective (especially a buyer with a limited budget), it is perfectly acceptable to ask about price negotiation, which is the whole point the transaction. That way, the buyer can save both himself and the seller any time or expense otherwise misspent if the parties are just too far apart, and gauge the chances of suitable negotiation.
Others have said to take good pictures in good light against an attractive background, such as scenic California Highway One or the Blue Ridge Parkway, etc., reminding the perspective buyer why he always wanted to buy a Porsche and where he wants to have fun with it. Avoid shots in your driveway or weed lot with the car up on blocks, which reminds the buyer where he doesn't want to be with his new toy... and how much all this may cost him while arguing with his wife about it. Take pics at ~10am and ~2pm sunlight, with the sun to your back and the car fully lit, so the internet observer can blow up the pics and see detail and color. Detail the car, such that the buyer can seen himself driving his girlfriend to the prom in it, "as is."
Specifically address the IMS issue, or with a '99 explain why it may be a non-issue excluded from the class action lawsuit since IMS problems came along later. Address maintenance and damage history right up front in the ad, with pics. Some issues, such as scuffed seat leather, may be fixed very inexpensively, and your open disclosure of such defects tells the buyer you're being straight with them.
Personally, I'd rather buy a cheaper car in good structural and cosmetic condition that has not had the IMS and RMS done, so I could save some money on purchase and then do the job myself and know exactly how and when the work was done, vs. just accepting a stranger's word and/or perhaps bogus maintenance records. It happens.
Be unfailingly polite and professional in all communications, as the "CL flake" who asked a lot of pesky questions and then went silent, may be an otherwise serious buyer sidetracked with busy life demands and unable to follow up since first contact weeks ago, perhaps due to a sick child or work priorities.
Be realistic about pricing: Edmunds, Kelly, NADA, etc. make it their business to know and report the market for cars, and if they all say ~$9K trade in value and ~$14K retail for a given Porsche description, that's not a misprint, so you'd better have some damn good market data and very convincing reasoning why your car @ $25K is several standard deviations higher. Such reasoning needs to convince seasoned car loan lenders, too, as even if your prospective buyer thinks $25K is a suitable price for what Kelly says is worth $10K less, that dog won't hunt at funding time and the deal will go south before closing. Ditto with insurance, as the buyer has to reconcile all this if he wants loan or insurance approvals. I made this pitch last winter with a local car dealer, who'd been asking $17K for a '99 silver 996 with 104K miles, taco spoiler, and aftermarket wheels which I didn't want. When I pointed out that they'd had that car on the lot for months at $17K with no takers, and gave them CL and BaT printouts of similar cars asking much less, they immediately dropped the asking price to $14K, and intimated that $12K might work (they probably gave ~$8K for trade in, which means they'd still make 50% markup, which markup I'm told is fairly standard). Keep in mind that dealer price is almost invariably more than a private party will fetch, as the dealer is set up to properly market the car, assumes much more liability on the sale than a private party, and is legally held to a higher standard. So, if dealers are getting $X for a given car, a private party will most likely not fetch that price: Consider Kelly and Edmonds numbers on private party sales as reality-based.
With that sort of arithmetic out there, a buyer is a fool not to shop and negotiate, and a seller is a fool to expect any different. This is all explained by the economic theory called the principle of substitution, which holds that a knowledgeable buyer will pay no more than the cost of a suitable substitute. So, if others are trading apparently similar cars at much lower prices, then no knowledgeable buyer will pay any more.
Others have said to take good pictures in good light against an attractive background, such as scenic California Highway One or the Blue Ridge Parkway, etc., reminding the perspective buyer why he always wanted to buy a Porsche and where he wants to have fun with it. Avoid shots in your driveway or weed lot with the car up on blocks, which reminds the buyer where he doesn't want to be with his new toy... and how much all this may cost him while arguing with his wife about it. Take pics at ~10am and ~2pm sunlight, with the sun to your back and the car fully lit, so the internet observer can blow up the pics and see detail and color. Detail the car, such that the buyer can seen himself driving his girlfriend to the prom in it, "as is."
Specifically address the IMS issue, or with a '99 explain why it may be a non-issue excluded from the class action lawsuit since IMS problems came along later. Address maintenance and damage history right up front in the ad, with pics. Some issues, such as scuffed seat leather, may be fixed very inexpensively, and your open disclosure of such defects tells the buyer you're being straight with them.
Personally, I'd rather buy a cheaper car in good structural and cosmetic condition that has not had the IMS and RMS done, so I could save some money on purchase and then do the job myself and know exactly how and when the work was done, vs. just accepting a stranger's word and/or perhaps bogus maintenance records. It happens.
Be unfailingly polite and professional in all communications, as the "CL flake" who asked a lot of pesky questions and then went silent, may be an otherwise serious buyer sidetracked with busy life demands and unable to follow up since first contact weeks ago, perhaps due to a sick child or work priorities.
Be realistic about pricing: Edmunds, Kelly, NADA, etc. make it their business to know and report the market for cars, and if they all say ~$9K trade in value and ~$14K retail for a given Porsche description, that's not a misprint, so you'd better have some damn good market data and very convincing reasoning why your car @ $25K is several standard deviations higher. Such reasoning needs to convince seasoned car loan lenders, too, as even if your prospective buyer thinks $25K is a suitable price for what Kelly says is worth $10K less, that dog won't hunt at funding time and the deal will go south before closing. Ditto with insurance, as the buyer has to reconcile all this if he wants loan or insurance approvals. I made this pitch last winter with a local car dealer, who'd been asking $17K for a '99 silver 996 with 104K miles, taco spoiler, and aftermarket wheels which I didn't want. When I pointed out that they'd had that car on the lot for months at $17K with no takers, and gave them CL and BaT printouts of similar cars asking much less, they immediately dropped the asking price to $14K, and intimated that $12K might work (they probably gave ~$8K for trade in, which means they'd still make 50% markup, which markup I'm told is fairly standard). Keep in mind that dealer price is almost invariably more than a private party will fetch, as the dealer is set up to properly market the car, assumes much more liability on the sale than a private party, and is legally held to a higher standard. So, if dealers are getting $X for a given car, a private party will most likely not fetch that price: Consider Kelly and Edmonds numbers on private party sales as reality-based.
With that sort of arithmetic out there, a buyer is a fool not to shop and negotiate, and a seller is a fool to expect any different. This is all explained by the economic theory called the principle of substitution, which holds that a knowledgeable buyer will pay no more than the cost of a suitable substitute. So, if others are trading apparently similar cars at much lower prices, then no knowledgeable buyer will pay any more.
06-07-2018, 11:15 PM
#41
06-08-2018, 02:22 AM
#42
^^^^ haha. Concrete is a **** hole and the car is a TIP so...... ya, add the spray painted wheels and you have yourself a 10k car. I'd go look at it if it wasn't a TIP.
06-08-2018, 09:42 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
I have purchased and sold lots of cars on CL and eBay, and have sold thousands of parts as well. I don't mind people asking me up front if I have some room in the price, but I answer the question in a way that gives them context.
Let's say I am selling a car listed for $20K. My reply when asked about price will be: "Once you come see it, I can move on price a bit. You're not going to get the car for $15K, but there is some room to move down." This let's the buyer know that I am flexible, but I'm not going to take a low-ball offer.
If I am buying a car, and able to go look at it (I have purchased several cars sight unseen, including my 996), I just assume there is room to move on the price a bit and typically will not ask until I am there. Since I know I am not going to low ball, asking the question beforehand does not make sense. If I was going to look at a $20K car, I may offer $18,500 (which I don't think would be an insulting offer), and I would be prepared to pay somewhere between the $18,500 and the $20K.
If I am buying the car without looking at it, you obviously have to talk price at some point, but I wait until after I have asked question, and if the seller is willing to let the car go for a PPI.
Now, if I am looking for another car to part out. I will be the guy that ask what the bottom number is, or I will say if I show up with $2K cash and a trailer today, does that buy the car? This is because I do not want to waste my time or the seller's. Parting out the car has a purpose to make money, I typically do E36 M3s. I know if I can get any E36 M3 for $2-$3K, I will make money so I do not need to look at it first. I also know that no matter whay, I won't pay more than $3K, so if the seller will not budge, I don't waste my time. If the ad is still up after a couple weeks have passed, I will reach back out. Of course, it is getting much harder to find an E36 M3 for $2-3K that don't come from CoPart.
Let's say I am selling a car listed for $20K. My reply when asked about price will be: "Once you come see it, I can move on price a bit. You're not going to get the car for $15K, but there is some room to move down." This let's the buyer know that I am flexible, but I'm not going to take a low-ball offer.
If I am buying a car, and able to go look at it (I have purchased several cars sight unseen, including my 996), I just assume there is room to move on the price a bit and typically will not ask until I am there. Since I know I am not going to low ball, asking the question beforehand does not make sense. If I was going to look at a $20K car, I may offer $18,500 (which I don't think would be an insulting offer), and I would be prepared to pay somewhere between the $18,500 and the $20K.
If I am buying the car without looking at it, you obviously have to talk price at some point, but I wait until after I have asked question, and if the seller is willing to let the car go for a PPI.
Now, if I am looking for another car to part out. I will be the guy that ask what the bottom number is, or I will say if I show up with $2K cash and a trailer today, does that buy the car? This is because I do not want to waste my time or the seller's. Parting out the car has a purpose to make money, I typically do E36 M3s. I know if I can get any E36 M3 for $2-$3K, I will make money so I do not need to look at it first. I also know that no matter whay, I won't pay more than $3K, so if the seller will not budge, I don't waste my time. If the ad is still up after a couple weeks have passed, I will reach back out. Of course, it is getting much harder to find an E36 M3 for $2-3K that don't come from CoPart.
07-26-2018, 06:11 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Soooo...what's your best price?
Seriously, when I bought mine from a private party he got to sharing horror stories of his experience. Example: one guy called, allegedly, from California and wanted to trade him for a house boat. A house boat for God's sake! We live in NE!
Seriously, when I bought mine from a private party he got to sharing horror stories of his experience. Example: one guy called, allegedly, from California and wanted to trade him for a house boat. A house boat for God's sake! We live in NE!
