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Hey gang, need your advice here. I've had 2 944s and now want to move up into the car I've always wanted.
I'm looking at a 1999 996 with 76,500 original kms - LN bearing, clutch, coils, tubes, RMS all done - saw the receipt from Mantis in the GTA. I drove the car, it runs awesome, its tight, not a mark on the body. Its owned by an older gent, and it looks well cared for. I could easily get a safety without question.
A fellow I've known for 20 years who is a Porsche parts guy for the past 25 years told me to avoid ANY water cooled 911s. PERIOD. He said the engine is an embarrassment for Porsche, and to expect it to blow up, no question. He said that he'd question why someone would change out the double row bearing, instilling fear that something might be wrong with the engine already...I saw the bearing and it was mint.
Now I'm ****ting a brick, and have doubts.
Is the failure rate that bad? My googling says otherwise, and I've read posts on Pelican and here that guys have been running these cars (with proper maintenance) for 1000s of miles.
What says the masses? Is the guy delirious or simply a hard-core oil cooled enthusiast?
I'd appreciate your feedback...this forum has been awesome over the years.
Don't let the personal opinion from one guy - who you happen to have in high regard - instill total fear in you. It's just his opinion. Being a Porsche parts guy, the only time you have to deliver parts is usually when something is broken - that's confirmation bias. Since the 996 engines did have their issues early on, I bet he's seen quite some parts fly by. Keep in mind a ****-ton of 996's were sold as well, compared to 993 and before.
I'm willing to bet his opinion is formed over what he has seen - and he's only seen the bad cars, not the good ones. The good ones don't roll into the shop with a blown engine. Couple that with over well over 2x 996's on the road compared to earlier models, and all he's going to see is ... well, you guesed it.
So do your own research, look up those failure rates (they're publicly available data), and decide then. If it's got LN, you can even ask the guys over at LN if the engine was pre-qualified properly or not, if you know enough about when the bearing went in.
He said the engine is an embarrassment for Porsche, and to expect it to blow up, no question.
This is an extreme view, and shouldn't be taken for truth.
I wouldn't say high regard, but he helped source some used parts for the 2 944s I've owned and restored in the past and I thought some advice from him couldn't hurt. I wasn't expecting such a "Debbie-downer" for sure. He sure sounded cynical. Sheesh.
If it's a 5% failure rate, that would mean there's 95% chance of reliability I say!
What's the failure rate on a GM (General Mistake), Ford (fix or repair daily) for example? They didn't get these nicknames for rock solid reliability either. lol
I own a 996. I am a master mechanic. Not a Porsche certified. I work on all Makes and Models. I agree with the comment above. Asking a mechanic is great for a PPI and if you want to know common issues with cars. But mechanics and parts guys only know what is common failures. All car manufacturer have problems. Every one has a big goof. But to say all water cooled Porsche's are bad is a gross overstatment and just plain ignorant. Yes the 996 has its issues. Yes its a risk. No different than any car. Buy it.....do some maintenance.......replace some common parts if you so choose.......then drive the crap out of it.
The agreed upon # for the failure rate of the single row (introduced somewhere in 2000) IMS bearing was somewhere around 8%. The dual row bearings failed at a considerably lower rate as did/do the larger nonservicable single row bearings (almost none according to the experts). This being said, the IMSB is only one mode of failure for the M96. Read everything you can, try to “separate the wheat from the chaff” and then weigh your aversion to risk...
Every used car is a risk. Bought my 99’ C2 (w/113,000 mostly undocumented miles)three years ago from a porsche dealer for the outstanding storage fee after sitting three years abandoned by PO. I knew what I was risking, read all the horror stories and listened to every T,D and H tell me his option about 996’s, and bought anyway with the attitude it could go south any moment from day one. It now has 121,000 miles, over time I have replaced coils, spark plugs, oil pressure sending unit, water reservoir cap, rebuilt the hydraulic rams ( its a cab)and reconditioned the pump while in there, replaced one set of rear tires, and piece by piece replaced almost all of the ratted out grey interior. The car runs and drives like a champ, its not a 4.0 beast, but the 3.4 is spirited ,torquey and very fun. I love this car more then any of my 951’s , even my last 400+ hpr three liter( sorry 44 guys, still lov em��) and am amazed by it everytime I get in it. This car never fails to put a smile on my face, I have never regretted buying it. So for all the horrible stories you have heard and all the future ones to come, come back and read this one! Its a car , things wear out, things break, but in the end the 996 is a Still a well engineered machine! # onediehardfan
The '99 is amazing. You can get short blocks for 5-6k and they still have a lot of the feel and character of the 993's, only quicker and way less expensive. They are also wicked fun on the track. I currently have 3 - '99's. A daily, a track project, and a former track car with a GT2 body kit that I've taken mostly back to stock for my uncle who purchased it from me.
Hey gang, need your advice here. I've had 2 944s and now want to move up into the car I've always wanted.
I'm looking at a 1999 996 with 76,500 original kms - LN bearing, clutch, coils, tubes, RMS all done - saw the receipt from Mantis in the GTA. I drove the car, it runs awesome, its tight, not a mark on the body. Its owned by an older gent, and it looks well cared for. I could easily get a safety without question.
A fellow I've known for 20 years who is a Porsche parts guy for the past 25 years told me to avoid ANY water cooled 911s. PERIOD. He said the engine is an embarrassment for Porsche, and to expect it to blow up, no question. He said that he'd question why someone would change out the double row bearing, instilling fear that something might be wrong with the engine already...I saw the bearing and it was mint.
Now I'm ****ting a brick, and have doubts.
Is the failure rate that bad? My googling says otherwise, and I've read posts on Pelican and here that guys have been running these cars (with proper maintenance) for 1000s of miles.
What says the masses? Is the guy delirious or simply a hard-core oil cooled enthusiast?
I'd appreciate your feedback...this forum has been awesome over the years.
For the longest time I wanted to hate the 996 like most others. But my friend recently inherited a 996 Tip Cabriolet. This has to be the second, least desirable porsche, a C4 tip cab being probably taking the cake.
Having wrenched on it, having driven it, I have to say what a marvelous car - headlights aside. The 996 and the 997 engines share many of the basic principles. So up until the DFI motors took into effect, the biggest scariest thing is of course the IMS bearing. But if you can toss that LN solution - basically the engine becomes cured from the stand point - assuming you are buying one that can accept the LN Solution. After that, it's really the plastic bits that fail this car - everything else has been really really solid. The little plastic bits are really really irritating - but plastic on any car will break.
I wanted to also really hate the interior on this car, but I find it of better build quality than the 987/997 generation and the rubber that seems to melt. I don't even dare use the cup holders on the 997/987 for fear of looking at it funny and then incurring the wrath of a broken cup holder assembly.
On a older car this is what I would look for:
Bushings
Suspension
end links
Coolant expansion tank
vacuum lines
oil filler tube
pulley system
IMS bearing
again, non of these are deal breakers for me, it's just so I would be able to price it accordingly.
Love my '99 996. As Slakker has already explained and taught many of us, it is perfect for a daily driver and/or a track car. From a track car perspective, a few simple mods and you will having a blast at the track. A few more and you will be putting up respectable numbers. All while maintaining normal road driving characteristics.
As for the IMS situation, here is my story (sample size of N=1). The previous owner had replaced the OEM bearing at around 60K miles. It was in perfect condition. I bought the car at about 82K miles and 4 years later. During a transmission problem fix, the mechanic checked the replacement IMS part and found some free play in the bearing. He recommended replacement. I decided on the IMSS and hopefully do not need to worry about this potential failure point.
So, I have had the car for 2 years now and several track days and have no mechanical concerns with the car. Just wear parts and lots of oil!
Take the plunge and prepare like the others have mentioned.
Hey not trying to date myself but I have been at this hobby for lets say a bunch of years. Porsche models have almost always had unique model issues
Early 911 MFI never stayed tuned
1974-1977 911s pulled head studs
CIS cars blew up their air boxes
968s pinion bearing failures.
1990s 911s leaking head gaskets
993 imolbolizer failures
etc, etc, etc
No doubt the 996 IMS issue is right up there with Porsche issues, but doing preventative repair is a known fix.
Then there are 996s that just run and run and run I own a 186K mile 1999 never did IMS and I am still enjoying every minute with the car they are without a doubt the best Porsche buy out there
Just enjoy
Rich
All good advice here. I've owned my '02 C2 for almost seven years. Bought with 100,300 miles and now has 174,000. Changed IMS at 144,000, and original bearing came out looking fine. Best car I've ever owned, and I've owned a lot. Not cheap when something breaks, but not ridiculous either, if you pay attention and spend time in the archives here. Do it!
This is why Rennlist is so great. I trust your experience and opinions more than the guy I mentioned - I've bought a lot of 944 parts from him over the last 20 years, but I was shocked when he said what he said about the 996.
My gut says a PPI will show very minimal wear and tear, and maybe some minor things...one being the airbag light. (Its likely a simple fix by seat buckle and wiring kit for the seat bottom.) The other issue I noted was he had 2 jugs of Castrol 5W30 synthetic on his workbench for an oil change...my thought is that is not the best choice for oil. However he did say he cuts open his filters each time to inspect.
The guy from Flat 6 Innovations (Jake?) mentioned on a thread that cars built in 1998 for the '99 model year are his preferred choice. I pm'd him for details, anyone know why he'd say that?
The '99 cars were not included in the class action lawsuit against Porsche because the failure rate of the original dual-row bearings was less than 1%, vs. nearly ten times that for some of the '01 and later cars. Of those later single-row intermediate shaft bearings which failed, reportedly the vast majority were on cars which got little exercise, such that oil contaminates reportedly damaged the bearing seals, allowing the grease to wash out: However, those cars actively and frequently driven were pretty much spared, but pampered garage queens more often failed, presumably because of chemical etching/damage to parts sitting too long.
Despite all this, the German equivalent of our DOT did a regression analysis of reliability for all cars sold in Germany over the period of the late '90s to about 2010. They found that the single most reliable car sold there during the (coincidental) time frame of the 996 production was......the 996, despite IMSB and RMS problems which pretty much didn't happen in the '99 cars, as noted above.
Buy the '99 and drive it hard. You'll both be happier.
07-28-2018, 03:52 PM
Thinking of a 1999 996 purchase...ADVICE needed!
Porsche models have almost always had unique model issues
